Specialist or Further?

[vashappenin]

Hey all,

IF YOU'RE READING THIS PLEASE GIVE ME SOMETHING... ITS BETTER THAN NOTHING..
So the time has come for us year 11s to choose our subjects for next year. I've already got all my subjects in mind (Eng, HHD, Methods, Chem and Further), but last week, the VCE coordinators were going around to each methods class and speaking to select students about considering specialist maths for next year. He spoke to me too, and recommended me to choose it for next year.

Before this, never ever in my wildest dreams would I have even thought the slightest about doing Specialist. I mean, I'm ranked in the top 5 in class, and my methods teacher said I should do it as well, but I just feel like it would be a struggle for me, hence why I'm choosing Further, I guess because it's easier (I know, easy doesn't necessarily mean higher study score), and also because I don't know enough about Specialist and I'm just going off assumptions and things I've heard from others. Either way, whichever one I do is just for the sake of choosing a 5th subject, not for the sake of prereqs or to suit my course

ANYWAY.... What should I do? Specialist or Further? Anyone doing either (or even better, both), what are the pro's and cons? How are the work loads of both/either in comparison to Methods? What am I putting myself up for by doing either of them? How much of my time will it take to do either one? Any additional info I should know?

Please help me out here! Any advice is better than nothing
Thanks in advance

[Greatness]

Oh Maaaah Gaaaawwwwddddd. Another one of these threads!11111!!!11!!1!! this has been asked probably a gazillion and 2 times now Anywho...
The potential study scores, a 30 raw in spesh would equate to a 43~ raw in further this is considering the scores after scaling. Spesh went to 42 from 30 and further probably dropped from 43-42.x. If you're good at math, enjoy it and will work hard then I'd recommend you to do spesh. But if you're not willing to put an effort in to learn and understand everything then you'd be better off to do further math and learn the easier content but try to eliminate errors in your calculations. Whichever decision you make you will have to work hard regardless, maybe more so in spesh than further but DO NOT underestimate how much effort you need to put in to achieve a good score in further math.
I did all 3 math, hated further math, methods was alright - it taught some good stuff for knowledge but honestly, if you like learning math spesh is where it's at, you learn some pretty cool stuff in it and when you finish it you'll say to yourself 'it's not that bad' seriously.
In the end it will come down to which one will help your atar the most and that will depend on the amount of effort you want to put in. If you're going to give vce your best shot then spesh is the way to go hands down. Another benefit from doing spesh is that there is overlap between spesh and methods so you learn some methods in it - well revise some methods, it's also good in that it extends your knowledge in certain topics which will help you immensely with understanding concepts and tackling the more challenging exam questions.
Realistically you will probably spend double the amount of time doing spesh work than further, all because of the demands of the subject.

[lukaal340]

If I was in your position I'd go Specialist. If your teacher tells you that your capable of spesh then go for it. If its too hard, im sure they'll let you drop back into the further class (i think, im not sure).

[Jenny_2108]

Please help me out here! Any advice is better than nothing
Thanks in advance

After reading your post and understanding a bit about your Maths ability, I have 2 advices:
1. Choosing Spesh
2. If you dont agree, read number 1 again 

[Limista]

Do spesh - what have you got to lose? After all, it's easier to scrape a 38 in spesh rather than a 50 in further (logically speaking)   

[kensan]

Yeah like the others have said, do spesh. I find further really boring, never do any work in it haha. Spesh is much more interesting and it complements methods too so you will probably end up doing better in methods as a bonus

[nisha]

Whilst everyone is insanely smart on this site and will say "DO SPESH" and can cope with the workload, I beg to differ.
The workload is a heap (exercises, weekly chapter reviews, weekly assignments, StudyOn, checkpoints, neap exam topic tests) and honestly, i have to put a lot of effort in this subject, as it requires a lot of attention.
If I had my time again, just because I am lazy, I would've picked Further-i want an easy subject.
But thats just me

[Jenny_2108]

Whilst everyone is insanely smart on this site and will say "DO SPESH" and can cope with the workload, I beg to differ.
The workload is a heap (exercises, weekly chapter reviews, weekly assignments, StudyOn, checkpoints, neap exam topic tests) and honestly, i have to put a lot of effort in this subject, as it requires a lot of attention.
If I had my time again, just because I am lazy, I would've picked Further-i want an easy subject.
But thats just me

Workload depends on different schools. Yours includes weekly assignments, StudyOn, checkpoints, neap but mine only has exercises and chapter reviews. Having said that, you are still right somehow. With Further, for example, 50 questions take you a bit of time but with Spesh, its huge.
But studying Spesh helps a lot for Methods because they mostly overlap. Thus, you can save time doing Methods for Spesh

[paulsterio]

As somebody who knows both the Further and Spesh courses rather well, I can say that first of all

If I had my time again, just because I am lazy, I would've picked Further-i want an easy subject.

1) Further is NOT easy - have you actually done Further? You'll understand how challenging it is when you actually do the course.

2) You will have to get 100% on both exams in Further to get a 50 study score, one mark lost = 1 study score down

Whilst everyone is insanely smart on this site and will say "DO SPESH" and can cope with the workload, I beg to differ.
The workload is a heap (exercises, weekly chapter reviews, weekly assignments, StudyOn, checkpoints, neap exam topic tests) and honestly, i have to put a lot of effort in this subject, as it requires a lot of attention.

3) The workload for both subjects is pretty similar - you still have to do exercises, chapter reviews, assignments, checkpoints, practice exams and all that for Further

4) You will not do well in Further if you think it's easy and you just wing your exams.

But studying Spesh helps a lot for Methods because they mostly overlap. Thus, you can save time doing Methods for Spesh

5) Agree, Methods/Spesh combo fits better together than the Methods/Further combo

6) Not to mention scaling effects - basically ask yourself this - is it easier for you to get around 80% for both Spesh exams or 100% for both Further exams (they'll both net you a 50 scaled)

[max payne]

1) Further is NOT easy - have you actually done Further? You'll understand how challenging it is when you actually do the course.

Agreed. All I ever hear from people that don't even do further is that its ridiculously easy. the truth is, there is no easy or hard maths, they're all just different types of maths. Further is mostly about stats and 'practical' maths while spesh is more of the maths that you do in something like engineering, and methods is just a disorganised mix of the two. And also Id like to point out that, although I found the actual further questions easier than spesh, its easier for me to sit down and study for specialist becuse i find it more enjoyable. Further was hell for me to do because I would have to do about 20 'pointless' questions to find something remotely interesting.

As somebody who knows both the Further and Spesh courses rather well, I can say that first of all

If I had my time again, just because I am lazy, I would've picked Further-i want an easy subject.

2) You will have to get 100% on both exams in Further to get a 50 study score, one mark lost = 1 study score down
 

I would have to disagree with that. It is possible to get a 50 with one mark lost (on 2011 exam 2 anyway..)

[paulsterio]

Yeah, I agree with you, I know people who did Methods + Further and did better in Methods than in Further because they had no real interest in Further!

But my advice would just be, do what you want to do - if you're interested in Spesh - do Spesh - if you like the applications in Further - do Further - there's no real substitute for flipping through the textbook and looking at what subject you prefer.

Alright, you might be right - losing 1 mark and getting a 50 - but there have been years where that's not possible (I know someone who lost a mark in Exam 1 because he filled in his MC sheet wrong - coloured in a wrong bubble - he got 100% for SACs and Exam 2 and he got a 49 - this was 2010).

[Limista]

Yeah, I agree with you, I know people who did Methods + Further and did better in Methods than in Further because they had no real interest in Further!

But my advice would just be, do what you want to do - if you're interested in Spesh - do Spesh - if you like the applications in Further - do Further - there's no real substitute for flipping through the textbook and looking at what subject you prefer.

Alright, you might be right - losing 1 mark and getting a 50 - but there have been years where that's not possible (I know someone who lost a mark in Exam 1 because he filled in his MC sheet wrong - coloured in a wrong bubble - he got 100% for SACs and Exam 2 and he got a 49 - this was 2010).

Whoah - I'd be really frustrated if I was him!

[vashappenin]

Thanks everyone! Maybe I will choose spesh and see how it goes for the two weeks orientation... if I'm struggling with it then, I'll change to further

One more question ... How hard is it to get around a 32 in spesh? Like what percentages would I be needing to get ideally in SACs/practise exams/etc. and what exam score would I need for both exams? Also, are you allowed a bound book of notes as with methods? Any other pros/cons?

[Biceps]

Do spesh if you love maths. Personally at the start of the year i was confused as well between those subjects.
I chose spesh and believe me i did not regret it one bit. Doing the specialist homework is actually fun and i look forward to specialist classes almost as much as bio classes. (Which is saying a lot).

[Biceps]

I've heard 32 is fairly easy to get compared to other subjects. A friend of mine got 33 (which scaled to 45) and he did not even do any trials before exams.