Teaching

[paulsterio]

Teaching remuneration is not great (especially in Victoria). 75k might be the average but how long does it actually take to get there?
http://www.education.vic.gov.au/hrweb/Documents/Teacher_salary_rates.pdf

I know that teaching remuneration isn't great, but it's by no means as low as what people say it is - like it's actually not even that low. I've spoken to a few of my high school teachers and the general consensus is that once you've reached teaching VCE (which is where I ultimately want to be) - you would already be around the expert stage and I know teachers that are teaching VCE around 4 - 5 years after they graduate - which isn't bad at all.

Anyways, I agree with you, for the work they do, teachers should get paid more, but look at the flip side:

- Teachers have a great starting salary of around $55,000 which is higher than many other professions (higher than being a medical intern too, apparently)
- Teachers in public schools have quite generous superannuation
- Generally high job security - there's always going to be a teacher shortage
- 8 weeks of holidays per year - but the thing about this is that your holidays will match up with your future children's holidays - so of course - family trips and that will be easier
- Most schools are local - which means you might be able to avoid traffic and travel times - I know a teacher at my old school who lived in Mulgrave (so it took him 15 minutes to get to and from work each day)
- If you're more money-minded, private schools pay much much more than public schools and I've heard that many private school teachers hit the 90,000 mark, some even the 100,000 mark.

[Russ]

I know that teaching remuneration isn't great, but it's by no means as low as what people say it is - like it's actually not even that low. I've spoken to a few of my high school teachers and the general consensus is that once you've reached teaching VCE (which is where I ultimately want to be) - you would already be around the expert stage and I know teachers that are teaching VCE around 4 - 5 years after they graduate - which isn't bad at all.

The scale I posted before is how your income goes up, based on years of teaching experience (technically it's defined as 5+ months of teaching per year but w/e) in the public sector. Work privately, sure it's different and there's more money but that's different.

Anyway on money: 55k is the absolute lowest amount a Victorian medical intern could make / what is the teaching super rate, because i have no idea?

Money in teaching is not great. You'll be able to live -comfortably- but I think given that we're in agreement about how it's underpaid and undervalued (cough contract based employment and additional work requirements) it's somewhat disingenuous to simultaneously say that the money is good.

[paulsterio]

No I agree with you that the money isn't great, but of course, once you start hitting the 70k mark, you will definitely be able to live comfortably, especially in a family of two working adults, that's already around 140,000 per annum, which is far more than enough to live comfortably off, sure you can't expect to own multiple homes, a Mercedes-Benz and a house in Toorak, but you'll still be around (if not slightly higher) than the average income for an university educated family.

You're right, I'm not trying to say the money is good, not at all, but what I'm trying to say is that the money isn't as bad as others make it out to be. A lot of friends I have seem to have this misconception that teachers get all out shithouse pay - which just isn't true.

[kenhung123]

Are you really considering dropping out to do teaching? O.o

[paulsterio]

Are you really considering dropping out to do teaching? O.o

Yes, I actually am, but it is more likely that I am considering doing a DipEd at the end of my course.

What is so surprising about wanting to do teaching?

[pi]

What is so surprising about wanting to do teaching?

It's surprising because not many people in med drop out to do another degree, let alone one that leads to a career in teaching. It's a very very small minority.

[paulsterio]

It's surprising because not many people in med drop out to do another degree, let alone one that leads to a career in teaching. It's a very very small minority.

Well, what can I say, I have interests and areas which I wish to pursue as well. As much as I think a doctor is a good profession to be, I have my own personal interests and joys as well. Although many people just think medicine is the dream course - why would you not want to be a doctor - that's not how things actually are - there is no such thing as a dream course.

Just because the requirements for Med are high and entry is ultra-competitive does not mean that everyone would want to do it and that everyone currently doing Med would enjoy it. Of course, it's easy to jump on the bandwagon and end up as a doctor. But you know, when I'm old and on my dying bed, diagnosed with some terminal illness, I don't want to regret that I didn't spend my life doing things that I really wanted to do.

So call me crazy, but sometimes we all have to be a little crazy and do the things that we love - sure we have to think about our future as well, but who knows what will happen tomorrow.

[kenhung123]

I'm surprised because you achieved high scores in VCE and got into med which is not a degree everyone gets a chance to get into.
I don't quite understand why you would finish a degree which you do not want to pursue a career in?

[Lasercookie]

I don't quite understand why you would finish a degree which you do not want to pursue a career in?

Perhaps irrelevant to this discussion, but the end result of education doesn't have to be vocational.

[Water]

Why not Tutor, instead of Teaching? Or if you are really passionate about teaching then create a tuition center for VCE kids in which you charge low fees, volunteer to teach in third world countries or even in community centers. I don't see the rationale in planning to drop out of med for teaching.

I agree that teaching is a noble and respectable job, but in the long term, if you have completed medicine (or any other course) and have experience in the industry, your future students will respect you far more and gain so much more from the wisdom, knowledge, and insight that you have gained over the years. If you choose teaching, I think you will be cutting yourself short for the opportunity that many kids in Victoria would cry to have.

Teaching is a great career by itself, but I think you can always turn to teaching, now or when your 50. But studying Medicine/Law/ Or another high pedigree subject, you don't get that chance often and you will hit a certain threshold in your life when it will be impossible to enter into those industries in an economical manner.

My two cents.

[Stick]

It's surprising because not many people in med drop out to do another degree, let alone one that leads to a career in teaching. It's a very very small minority.

Well, what can I say, I have interests and areas which I wish to pursue as well. As much as I think a doctor is a good profession to be, I have my own personal interests and joys as well. Although many people just think medicine is the dream course - why would you not want to be a doctor - that's not how things actually are - there is no such thing as a dream course.

Just because the requirements for Med are high and entry is ultra-competitive does not mean that everyone would want to do it and that everyone currently doing Med would enjoy it. Of course, it's easy to jump on the bandwagon and end up as a doctor. But you know, when I'm old and on my dying bed, diagnosed with some terminal illness, I don't want to regret that I didn't spend my life doing things that I really wanted to do.

So call me crazy, but sometimes we all have to be a little crazy and do the things that we love - sure we have to think about our future as well, but who knows what will happen tomorrow.

I just hope you didn't start the MBBS knowing that you might prefer to be a teacher instead of a doctor. As they said at the Monash University Open Day last week, every student that ends up in our course that doesn't want to be there is eventually going to be a loss and furthermore, is taking a spot from somebody who might really want to be a doctor. Please don't take this the wrong way and assume I'm saying you're doing medicine for all the wrong reasons - that's not what I'm suggesting. But if you get to a stage where you realise you want to be a teacher even more so than a doctor, I encourage you to act before your current degree finishes. There's no point hogging someone else's place and being miserable yourself in the mean time.

[kenhung123]

I don't quite understand why you would finish a degree which you do not want to pursue a career in?

Perhaps irrelevant to this discussion, but the end result of education doesn't have to be vocational.

Still doesn't make sense? Unless it is a bachelor of science, it's strange to say you enjoy studying to be a doctor but don't want to be one. Med is a professional degree is an highly focused on training you to be one although the first year may involve lots of general science.

[paulsterio]

I'm surprised because you achieved high scores in VCE and got into med which is not a degree everyone gets a chance to get into.
I don't quite understand why you would finish a degree which you do not want to pursue a career in?

That's the wrong mentality, it doesn't matter if you get a high score or a low score, you go for what you want, you don't go into a course just because it's hard to get into.
Oh, you don't understand how teaching works then.

With teaching, you do an undergraduate degree, and then either a Diploma or Masters of Education (1 or 2 years). That undergraduate degree can be anything, including an MBBS.

Still doesn't make sense? Unless it is a bachelor of science, it's strange to say you enjoy studying to be a doctor but don't want to be one. Med is a professional degree is an highly focused on training you to be one although the first year may involve lots of general science.

Hey, but are you the one currently doing Med right now? You seem to think you know quite a fair bit about what's in Med and what makes sense and doesn't make sense. I never said that I didn't want to become a doctor. I'm just saying I was considering a career in teaching. I said I was considering, which means I'm thinking about it, but that could be in the far future. Right now, I'm in a course where I'm happy to be for the next 5 years. So I'll see what happens as I move into hospitals and experience more of medicine in general.


Stick/Water

Oh no, there was a time where I wanted to be a doctor. And I'm far from miserable about it, in fact, I'm quite happy I'm in MBBS and it's certainly a good place to be. It's an enjoyable course I do enjoy learning about the things that I'm learning about right now. The truth is, no matter what happens now, my spot is already my spot, they won't just randomly let somebody into it. But either way, that's an aside, the main point is, I have many years of my life left, so I'll just wait it out and see.

Who knows, in another 5 years I might want to be something completely different, maybe I want to be a GP in 5 years, for example, so I'll obviously continue with this in the mean time and then we'll see what happens.

[Stick]

Stick/Water

Oh no, there was a time where I wanted to be a doctor. And I'm far from miserable about it, in fact, I'm quite happy I'm in MBBS and it's certainly a good place to be. It's an enjoyable course I do enjoy learning about the things that I'm learning about right now. The truth is, no matter what happens now, my spot is already my spot, they won't just randomly let somebody into it. But either way, that's an aside, the main point is, I have many years of my life left, so I'll just wait it out and see.

Who knows, in another 5 years I might want to be something completely different, maybe I want to be a GP in 5 years, for example, so I'll obviously continue with this in the mean time and then we'll see what happens.

As long as that's how you truly feel, Paul, go with your heart. Otherwise, there's no point making excuses to stay in the MBBS. Life is too short for these things.

[paulsterio]

No, not at all, but I can't say that I know enough about being a doctor to make a decision at this stage, and either way, I have 4 years left of MBBS. If I were to transfer to a Science degree now, I won't get credits for MED1011 and MED1022 (which is pretty dumb if you ask me), so I'll need to do 3 years anyways, so the difference in the end is 1 year. But I'd like to at least experience what it's like to be in a hospital full time and see the more clinical side of things first.

Making an informed decision is something which I find pretty important as well. And oh, I do need to mention as well, I can become a Teacher 20 years down the track if I become a doctor now, but I can't become a doctor if I decide to not do MBBS, so either way, it's a good position to be in