view on evolution?

[paulsterio]

Why does every religion debate on AN always turn ugly?

[slothpomba]

You're saying here that the more you learn about the intricacies of the human body, the more you feel like there was a design behind it. Let me ask you now if it's possible for something to be purposefully designed without having a designer?

The designer doesn't have to be God though. Raelians are creationists, with one minor modification, they think aliens did it rather than God.

And your argument for this design is that you are simply unable to fathom a natural explanation for the human body.

What if he just thinks this is the better explanation or there is a natural origin except it was guided by God? He doesn't have to be ignorant to think that this is also a plausible idea, especially God working through naturalistic means (again, we still haven't defined God yet either) or an Aristotelian or Deist conception of God.

You can decide, either you're participating in this debate, and your views are open to inquiry, or you don't want to participate. But don't dip your toes in and then all of a sudden call "insult" when somebody critiques your views.

Ease up, its not a trial.

This is all petty arguing over semantics anyway, i dont know why you two (three?) continued the bickering for so long. No wonder these things cant be actual debates. One of you should of just stopped responding. Let's not go on about "Oh, he started it!" either.

This is why we cant have nice things.

I will respond to abes22 when i can.

[enwiabe]

kingpomba, but taken in context with the fact that he says "I'm still a christian", I think we can cut the semantic crap and realise he's arguing for his christian version of god. Your entire post hinges on "omgz what if he's deist, or raelian" etc. and he clearly says in one of the first posts I'm a christian.

Also, your "ease up, it's not a trial" is bizarre. If you were wrongfully accused of something, you'd be wanting to clear your name too. I think your entire post was just a bit of mental masturbation trying to cut a position that places you squarely above both of us? It really adds nothing to the topic at hand at all. Your entire post is "lolz semantics".

[Genericname2365]

Why does every religion debate on AN always turn ugly?

Fixed.

[Russ]

Complexity of the body as argument for a designer is crazy, the human body is terribly designed anyway -.-

[DarkHorse]

Damn...it seems this thread has already exceeded 2 pages , but a few more posts should make it 4 overall. 

[slothpomba]

kingpomba, but taken in context with the fact that he says "I'm still a christian", I think we can cut the semantic crap and realise he's arguing for his christian version of god.

Christianity isn't a monolithic bloc, this won't get you much further. Anyway, lets stop arguing over this point. No wonder these things get so petty so fast.

It really adds nothing to the topic at hand at all.

Can't you see the irony?

I like to take my time to write well considered responses, especially to in-depth issues like the ones that emerge from the particular positions abes22 has put forward, so, it'll take me awhile.

You can practice sophism all you want and act like its a schoolyard but I'd rather it be serious and talk about actual philosophical issues. Thats why i came to this thread in the first place.

Complexity of the body as argument for a designer is crazy, the human body is terribly designed anyway -.-

Complexity as an argument and good design as an argument aren't necessarily the same thing.

[enwiabe]

Why does every religion debate on AN always turn ugly?

"On AN"

Every religion debate everywhere will always turn ugly. It is the nature of people wearing their hearts on their sleeves. There's really no easy way to tell someone that you think their entire worldview is a lie and just plain ridiculous.

They're going to take it personally, of course, because it's been mashed into them from a young age by -everyone- they love. They've been told it's a part of their identity. If they feel someone attacking that, they're obviously going to take it personally, even if you're just attacking an idea. To them, the idea is a part of them. I get that. At the same time, it's the equivalent of a Marxist getting personally offended if I were to tell them I thought Marxism is a miserable failure and has been demonstrated as such throughout the 20th century.

The only differences between the ideologies is the age at which people tend to adopt them. Obviously the people who adopt them from a young age are going to have an extremely tough time copping any criticism over it.

[enwiabe]

kingpomba, but taken in context with the fact that he says "I'm still a christian", I think we can cut the semantic crap and realise he's arguing for his christian version of god.

Christianity isn't a monolithic bloc, this won't get you much further. Anyway, lets stop arguing over this point. No wonder these things get so petty so fast.

Nope, not letting you make some hipster-semantic argument. Christian means believing in the bible and jesus. If you don't want those assumptions made about you, don't attach that tag. If you call yourself Christian, it is very fair to assume that you believe in the Christian theology which names Hashem/Yaweh as their god and creator, and Jesus as their saviour.

[enwiabe]

Complexity of the body as argument for a designer is crazy, the human body is terribly designed anyway -.-

Whose smart idea was it to make the penis both the excreter of urine, and the secreter of semen?

Seriously.

[slothpomba]

Nope, not letting you make some hipster-semantic argument. Christian means believing in the bible and jesus. If you don't want those assumptions made about you, don't attach that tag. If you call yourself Christian, it is very fair to assume that you believe in the Christian theology which names Hashem/Yaweh as their god and creator, and Jesus as their saviour.

Can at you at least try to remain serious? There are basic beliefs that tie Christians together of course (nicene creed etc) but there is significant theological differences amongst the different denominations, not to mention the ways they approach biblical literalism and science (and other contemporary issues).

[enwiabe]

Nope, not letting you make some hipster-semantic argument. Christian means believing in the bible and jesus. If you don't want those assumptions made about you, don't attach that tag. If you call yourself Christian, it is very fair to assume that you believe in the Christian theology which names Hashem/Yaweh as their god and creator, and Jesus as their saviour.

Can at you at least try to remain serious? There are basic beliefs that tie Christians together of course (nicene creed etc) but there is significant theological differences amongst the different denominations, not to mention the ways they approach biblical literalism and science.

The core theology is Jesus is the son of god.

Seriously, there's really no escaping that I don't know why you're trying to argue it.

[Surgeon]

inb4 shitstor.....


Oh wait

[JellyDonut]

Complexity of the body as argument for a designer is crazy, the human body is terribly designed anyway -.-

Whose smart idea was it to make the penis both the excreter of urine, and the secreter of semen?

Seriously.

Why have two pipes when you can settle with one? If I had to take God up for something, its making my nuts sensitive to pain

[Bozo]

But enwibee, I'd like you to consider the following:

We are considering the human body and it's immense complexity, Abraham argues that due to the complexity the of the human body, he believes that there is a creator as it is too complex to have arisen by chance. I understand that in your mind you have disproved this by challenging his logic, but you have not qualified your own logic for there certainly being no designer. Thus, I will now challenge your logic. How is it that you see something and make the conclusion that there is no designer?

So in the end, it really does just come down to what you believe, not what you can qualify, because you just cannot and this is not a decision like 'Is there toast in the fridge?' and not necessarily one bound in logic. Life, is often not bound in logic, it's not necessary that the answer to this question is either, so sometimes you just believe what you do, and that's it.