The Culture within AN

[Soul_Khan]

I agree with abes. Religious debates never get anywhere. Everyone holds so dearly onto their beliefs. It is highly unlikely that anyone can "convert" anyone over the internet.

It's not about converting people it's about discussing these issues, serious existential issues such as why are we here, where do we come from, what is the meaning of life, does god exist, etc. which religion attempts to answer are very deep issues and should be discussed/challenged. I don't see why you're against intellectual inquiry?

[pi]

I agree with abes. Religious debates never get anywhere. Everyone holds so dearly onto their beliefs. It is highly unlikely that anyone can "convert" anyone over the internet.

I don't think the goal of those debates are to try and convert people.

True, but I think certain users turn it into almost that by hammering (somewhat aggressively) any other stance on the issue.

I joined AN for the supportive and friendly aspect of the site. And this darker side of it really distracts everyone from all the positives. I've said it a few times already, but I really can't see what's so hard in holding a "moderate" and toned-down stance. Keep it friendly and encourage discussion and debate, not attacking and dismissal of other people's cultures.

And if you can't tone it down, maybe argue at another forum where the primary goal isn't an academic and supportive one. It's just intimidating.

[slothpomba]

It's not about converting people it's about discussing these issues, serious existential issues such as why are we here, where do we come from, what is the meaning of life, does god exist, etc. which religion attempts to answer are very deep issues and should be discussed/challenged. I don't see why you're against intellectual inquiry?

There are religious forums and philosophy forums for this purpose. If you want to debate religion, feel free to go there. I quite often do and the quality of debate, knowledge and learning is miles above what goes on here. Remarkably, i've almost never seen someone insulted either.

This is a VCE forum though, its more than a forum now, its a company. Far be it from me to give business advice but i think the focus of this site should be on VCE. If you want to debate religion or discuss it, there are much more appropriate and better venues.

In theory, i'm totally for discussions here. Religion and other issues about meaning and identity are critical to the young people who hang around this site. It'd be great to discuss it, in theory. In practice, they turn into something nasty and fierce. This is why i say, its fine in theory to discuss these things here but as we've all learned (especially those of us who have been around for awhile), it rarely goes good in practice. So, in practice, they should be avoided. If we can't play nice at all, we should just never play.

[Soul_Khan]

I agree with abes. Religious debates never get anywhere. Everyone holds so dearly onto their beliefs. It is highly unlikely that anyone can "convert" anyone over the internet.

I don't think the goal of those debates are to try and convert people.

True, but I think certain users turn it into almost that by hammering (somewhat aggressively) any other stance on the issue.

I joined AN for the supportive and friendly aspect of the site. And this darker side of it really distracts everyone from all the positives. I've said it a few times already, but I really can't see what's so hard in holding a "moderate" and toned-down stance. Keep it friendly and encourage discussion and debate, not attacking and dismissal of other people's cultures.

And if you can't tone it down, maybe argue at another forum where the primary goal isn't an academic and supportive one. It's just intimidating.

People are always going to be offended when you are debating about religion no matter how much you tone it down.

[pi]

People are always going to be offended when you are debating about religion no matter how much you tone it down.

Well it depends how it's being said. Questioning of an aspect of a belief probably wouldn't offend anyone, but attacking and dismissing it probably would.

Tolerance works both ways, everyone has to accept that there are going to be aspects of your culture that the next person does not agree with (which is why questioning or constructive debating wouldn't offend them). And if they can't accept that, then they shouldn't be involved in the thread until they can.

[Soul_Khan]

People are always going to be offended when you are debating about religion no matter how much you tone it down.

Well it depends how it's being said. Questioning of an aspect of a belief probably wouldn't offend anyone, but attacking and dismissing it probably would.

Unfortunately for some people, questioning an aspect of a belief is perceived as 'attacking' and 'dismissing' it.

[pi]

^And that's where the "tolerance works both ways" comes into it. If you can't take a reasonable stance, then just don't participate. Blind stances are as unhelpful as aggressive ones. And there will always be those like that, but they're not the "problem" AN has seen as described by the last few pages.

[abeybaby]

Unfortunately for some people, questioning an aspect of a belief is perceived as 'attacking' and 'dismissing' it.

I dont think thats an issue on AN

People are always going to be offended when you are debating about religion no matter how much you tone it down.

I dont think thats warrants not trying

[ShortBlackChick]

I do commend members such as pi, El2012, Nisha, Laseredd and many others who give out +1's well - i.e. they give out respect to the posts which really deserve them - the posts which are genuinely helpful to other people.

Oi cunt, what about me? I didnt upvote 3.5k of posts of shit all.

LovesPhysics 5089
kazdawg 3471
Hutchoo 2837
El2012 2600

I want recognition for all my serious upvoting even though pi overtook me like months ago.
And I'd have a lot more were we able to upvote in this thread, but then so would bloody pi, damn you

A part from mostly everyone is nice and gets along except for that occasional weirdo (there's one in every year i swear)

Pretty sure you were ours <3

Shout out to:
TrueTears and pi AND KAZDAWG for being the biggest bosses on this forums.

In all seriousness, I think we have a pretty open community here. I think its just me, but what stops me from commenting is laziness if not being intimidated by the intelligence of the people on here rather than the position of the person I'm posting in response to. That said I'm more than happy to be a lurker and sit back with some popcorn and watch the threads, upvoting the fuck out of what I can.
Cant really imagine not going on here I guess. Kinda like it here. Knowing that our generation are still capable of producing intelligent people is pretty sick and this site embodies that.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[Mao]

I'm a bit late to this party (and given that I have an exam in 7 hours, I think I have a valid excuse).

A massive thank you to Water and Thushan for getting this started. And acknowledgements to enwiabe and ninatron for biting the bait and keeping to your guns, your replies couldn't have illustrated the point better.

I wanted to raise this for a while now. I have this feeling that AN now has some of the harmful elements of BoS that catalysed AN's own inception (maybe I'm a bit off, I wasn't around during BoS). This is especially evident in the more verbal debate threads, where some people who actively participated choose to delete their accounts by the end of the thread.

Mods and admins here tend to have some pretty impressive credentials. These are very well respected by the community (and thank you for that, we are more humbled than anything else), but they also fuel a relatively fucking massive ego. I know I have trouble keeping control of that ego. Given the statuses here, I highly respect people who go against the status quo and call mods/admins out on being stupid (shout out to teewreck and abes amongst others).

I call to fellow mods and admins to apply some self-censoring to not be vindictive. Make your arguments known, offer objective criticisms, and depart. I can't think of a good reason to beat the other person to the ground, and I especially can't think of any reasonable justifications of beating the other person to the ground. I would be blind to say the views presented here represents the societal norm, or are acceptable by normal social standards (even if they are intended as 'changes-for-the-better'). Quite a few views here can even be considered as radical. If you cannot see the harm in being so strongly opinionated about something against the norm, then perhaps your sense of community is different to everyone else's.

EDIT: On second thought, I shouldn't be afraid to name names here. If it isn't already obvious, much of this is directed @ enwiabe and ninatron. Though the advice is generally adaptable to all.

[Soul_Khan]

Unfortunately for some people, questioning an aspect of a belief is perceived as 'attacking' and 'dismissing' it.

I dont think thats an issue on AN

I've seen two people leave the forum because their religious beliefs were criticized.

[abeybaby]

Unfortunately for some people, questioning an aspect of a belief is perceived as 'attacking' and 'dismissing' it.

I dont think thats an issue on AN

I've seen two people leave the forum because their religious beliefs were criticized.

Because their beliefs were criticized, or because they were critised?

[Soul_Khan]

Unfortunately for some people, questioning an aspect of a belief is perceived as 'attacking' and 'dismissing' it.

I dont think thats an issue on AN

I've seen two people leave the forum because their religious beliefs were criticized.

Because their beliefs were criticized, or because they were critised?

Their beliefs. Considering that religion is for many people is apart of their identity, some people can't seem to differentiate between the two.

[thushan]

Soul_Khan those two people were the same person. She PM'd me to tell me that she was quite upset, not because her beliefs were being criticised, but because her beliefs were being criticised in a very callous and degrading way. And when you criticise one's beliefs, ESPECIALLY in a religion where culture, identity, values, and religion are intertwined and are effectively synonymous, then you'd want to be sensitive about how you do it.

[Starlight]

I remember there being more than one person (but I won't name names).