initiations at sydney university college

[binders]

Insider speaks out over brutal college initiations

These sorts of initiation have been and still are a part of life at some of the finest universities in the world. Many types of Bullying are illegal in the workplace, but seem to be tolerated in schools and even in university.

So, illegal harassment or useful personal development tool?

(to be clear, I find it completely unacceptable, and in no way endorse such antics, but some may argue that it "builds character", promotes group bonding etc, some of the reasons people live in colleges in the first place.).

[JellyDonut]

The fact that it took someone to be hospitalised to pull the brakes on this is fucking disgusting.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/meet-the-pride-of-st-johns--the-untouchables-20121105-28u8d.html

Photos of students at St John's College taken from Facebook ... clockwise from top centre: Jack Jones, Tom Hansen, Harry Mitchell, Charles Geale, Tom Evans, Benedict Aungles, Peter Zacharia. All will form part of the problem-plagued college's student council in 2013

If you wanted to put a face to a name

[binders]

But it's not new for uni colleges to operate this way. Cambridge was founded ~800 years ago when some scholars at oxford killed a woman, and were hanged by the townsmen - it was the practice back then that uni scholars and students were immune from civil laws, and the staff protested the hanging and some set up shop in cambridge.

Also, the hazing goes back hundreds of years. It's described in literature from the 1600s as normal. There are people in some of the most powerful political positions in the world who have been through it, and have made no effort to see it stop once they had the power to push for change. Joe Hockey went to St. John's, and condemns it, but what's he done about it?

The issue i'm wondering about is, why are some organisations still seen as exempt from social and legal intervention?
You see something similar with footballers and drugs, with churches and sex offences.
Footballers who take drugs miss a few games. other people who get caught with drugs get a criminal record.

[JellyDonut]

You misunderstand me, I'm not against hazing. Although, you can hold initiations without coercing someone into drinking potentially lethal concoctions.

I suspect the reason why some individuals get let off with crimes is due to some face saving deals made by institutions and courts. I do see where you're coming from though and I'm interested in hearing other opinions, cause I really don't know either.

On a side note, being caught with drugs in your system isn't justification for a criminal record. Drug possession, is though.

[Eriny]

I don't know why it happens, but I think it's wrong. A lot of these colleges just take a 'boys will be boys' kind of attitude and nobody learns anything. I think it helps as well to reinforce a culture were certain people aren't explicitly excluded but are still given the message loud and clear that they aren't welcome.

[binders]

I don't know why it happens, but I think it's wrong. A lot of these colleges just take a 'boys will be boys' kind of attitude and nobody learns anything. I think it helps as well to reinforce a culture were certain people aren't explicitly excluded but are still given the message loud and clear that they aren't welcome.

yes, that sort of group dynamic is what you would expect in high school, so it's no surprise to see it in university colleges. I'm more interested in why, when there's a push to reduce this sort of 'soft' coercion in other social spheres, certain areas seem fairly immune (academia, sport, the military).

I say 'soft' coercion, because the board of the college is correct. Objectively, the girl *did* have a choice, if you disregard the other factors such as peer pressure, threat of stigmatisation, as well as the strong push towards group identity and fraternity that colleges strive for.

@JellyDonut
So you don't mind hazing, but only if it's not demeaning? Isn't an element of debasement sort of inherent in the idea of hazing?
Ii would be interesting to see some studies into the positive and negative effects of hazing and these sorts of initiation ceremonies vs. other forms of group bonding.

*EDIT*
Pell calls on St John's college council to quit
Looks like media attention has forced his hand.

[JellyDonut]

I'm against hazing where it can cause serious physical and/or mental damage. There is a clear line between doing something rather humiliating and stuff that is absolutely abhorrent (sexual abuse, poisoning etc.). The college's failure to uphold this distinction is a moral failing on their part.