Help! B.Sc @ Melb or Monash MBBS?

[sodapop]

Hi everyone! So I was very fortunate to get an ATAR that allows me to pick between the following courses, but I don't know which to choose. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

1. Monash MBBS (CSP) or Bonded
   ----> Pros: I want to study Med, and it's an undergrad degree that guarantees that I can do so. Why? I love the idea of a career that amalgamates patient care, diversity within a discipline, research and teaching. I'm fascinated by Biology and other sciences, and I love the idea of lifelong learning and constant intellectual challenge. I'd love to be part of a research team that discovers something that could save lives, and to be immersed in a dynamic career at the frontiers of discovery and technology. And I also love the idea of spending the rest of my life involved in a profession that aims to care for people, to alleviate suffering, to spread knowledge and to  make lives better. I've also heard that Med has abundant opportunities in terms of travel and diverse careers.
At Monash, I also have the option of the B.MedSci research year or the MBBS/Ph.D I've been hearing about (?) for research if I find myself interested in that.
Also, having talked to some school alumni in the MBBS course, they love it.
For those doing Monash MBBS, do you like the course?

   -----> Cons: Monash is about 2 hrs 1-way from home, so I'd probably have to move out, and accomodation is expensive. I've not had actual hands on experience in the Med field, so I don't really know what I'd be getting myself into...I like Bio, I've read blogs, guides, forum posts, medical memoirs, Wikipedia, attended information sessions, etc, and Med seems appealing, but there's still that "what if?"
- What if I don't really like it, like paulsterio? What if Med leaves me no time to spend with friends and family? I've heard also that there's no good time to start a family in Med, and that's something that I'd want to do. Insights?
- It's super stressful. What if Med isn't the career for me, what if I accidentally kill someone, or through making a silly mistake (of which I am exceedingly prone to doing), I cause a death? Could I live with that?


2. UoM Science
 ---> Pros: Having read VivaTequila's advice for nisha, Science seems like such an appealing generalist degree right now. The idea of not closing doors, of broadening my viewpoint, of spending a couple of years sorting out what I really want to do in life, it seems like it's worth not having the luxury of a secure place in Med. What I thought may have been a waste of three years, no longer seems so. Because although Med's my predominant interest, I still want to study other subjects - [Arts] Chinese, other languages, Philosophy, Literature, History, Politics, Creative Writing, [Science] Physics, Chemistry, Bio, Maths, [Commerce] something, coz I know nothing about commerce, [Music] an instrument. And it seems that the B.Sc is my best bet in allowing me to explore other fields while also staying on track for Med as well.
Plus I'll have time, 3 years, to see the world, broaden my viewpoints, and perhaps find that I want to do something else with my life. But I can't imagine what that could be, because the subjects I've listed above are merely interests borne from curiosity, and not passions. Perhaps I could explore them through alternative avenues, like independent study?

---> Cons: Unfortunately, I was 2.5 of an aggregate from a guaranteed CSP place in the UoM MD. So I think I might get a FFP, but that's too expensive. So if I preference the B.Sc, I would be abandoning a potential place in the Monash MBBS. Also, if I do get into the MD eventually, I might have wasted 3+ years "fooling around" (according to parents) learning things irrelevant to my future career, things I'll forget in a few years after the MD anyway.

3. UoM Biomed
---> Pros: Directed course for Med, competitive environment that will push me, close cohort?
---> Cons: Lack of diverse options and freedom of choice. Competitive.

4. LaTrobe Dentistry
---> Pros: Seems like Med, caring for people, also has the freedom/lifestyle for me to pursue other interests, spend time with friends and family. Also, good money after 5 years.
---> Cons: Teeth are interesting, but I can't imagine looking at teeth for the rest of my life. Also has a high suicide rate apparently. Also, there doesn't seem much opportunity for research into a diversity of disciplines. I want variety, Dent doesn't seem to give any.


So in that light, I'm thinking either:
1. Monash MBBS, graduate studies in other fields or self-study later on to pursue other interests. (Would this be possible?)
OR 2. UoM B.Sc or B.Biomed, sit GAMSAT, then try for M.D.


So I'm torn, and thus, I would love your opinion. If you're doing B.Sc, B.Biomed, MBBS, Dent, Arts, Commerce, anything, I'd appreciate and value any thoughts or suggestions you might have. Thanks for taking the time to read all this! 

NB: Sorry for seeming so stalkerish, I lurk but don't usually have anything insightful to post. 

Edit: Corrected a link.

[pi]

I can only talk for option #1.

Your concerns with MBBS (other than the travel factor) are very very common. And in all honesty, it's part of the package with taking up the course. Here is what I have learnt so far (shinny or someone might be able to chip in more):

I've not had actual hands on experience in the Med field, so I don't really know what I'd be getting myself into...I like Bio, I've read blogs, guides, forum posts, medical memoirs, Wikipedia, attended information sessions, etc, and Med seems appealing, but there's still that "what if?"
- What if I don't really like it, like paulsterio?

You're not alone here, and many I know in my course aren't sure either (I myself was seriously considering actuary). However, I found that you'll grow to love it, and that's me only after a year. I hear it gets a lot more exciting during the clinical years

What if Med leaves me no time to spend with friends and family?

Not true at all, however you can't expect to get VCE-style marks in med (90+ for everything). Because if you want that, it's going to be tough and most people who aim this high are glued to books (from what I have seen). The majority of people I know have no social problems at all, it's very fun

I've heard also that there's no good time to start a family in Med, and that's something that I'd want to do. Insights?

Can't answer this in any certainty, but from what I hear from a few of my graduating friends, marriage may be a little later than other graduates, but family life is not a problem.

It's super stressful.

It's only as stressful as you make it out to be (although 4th year is a b*tch for everyone from what I hear). The higher the expectations, the more stress you'll put on yourself. However, if you have a good study pattern and study with friends productively, the stress will decrease. So far, I haven't really been stressed (nervous, but not stressed).

What if Med isn't the career for me, what if I accidentally kill someone, or through making a silly mistake (of which I am exceedingly prone to doing), I cause a death? Could I live with that?

Again, only you can answer that. It's a matter of trust for yourself, your own confidence. I too have this fear in the back of my mind, but I guess I realise if I do my best that I hope this won't happen by my hand.




As for UoM Sci regarding the languages etc that appeal to you: the Monash MBBS offers an optional DipArts for those with a Credit (and above) average after first year. You can do those with med too



Another point I'd like to make is my take on med. For me, med is a privilege. It's not something I ever take for granted, hence, I'm a firm believer that if it comes your way once, it should be taken with both hands. It may not come around again. If it's not your thing, you can transfer out, it's not a huge biggie if it's your call.

[thushan]

Hey, I can speak about the idea of having children. My sister is a 3rd year medical student at the ANU who currently has 2 kids (she's 30).

Juggling med and two kids is not easy; in fact, my sister had to defer for half a year to nurse her younger child (he's cute!). Wasn't easy. The point is though, it's very hard, but it's doable.

That's juggling med and kids, i'm not sure about juggling being a doctor and kids. I'd say a really supportive husband would be the key here.

Oh yeah, and unless you're absolutely brilliant, especially at the type of learning where you can retain information so quickly, getting a 90+ in med is like...getting an ATAR of 100.95.

[sodapop]

@Rohit, really, thanks heaps, I'm not so concerned anymore...I think I was mainly scared that I wouldn't be able to handle it, but your posts have given me the reassurance that it's possible. 

And you're right, I've been so lucky to come so far in my application process, and studying Med has been something that I've aspired to for a while, not only would it be a "waste" to forsake it, but I might never have this opportunity again. And all the people I've talked to in medicine; family friends that are doctors, my GP, a specialist I saw a while ago, friends' siblings in Monash MBBS, past students from my school, you guys...everyone's loved it. So I'm going to let go of worries. 

Now it's just the waiting for offers. 

@Thushan, thanks for sharing that!  I've also talked to a family friend who's a rheumatologist, and she told me that when she got married (at 26), she took a year off (after residency) to go on a honeymoon. And she took some time off work to have a kid as well, after completing speciality training (at 32). So it definitely seems possible, not easy, but it just would happen later.

Re: scores. LOL...it seems getting anything above 80 in uni is really hard.  Just wondering, why is that? I've got a conditional Excellence scholarship for Monash, do you guys think it would be hard to maintain 70% + as an average for that? Also, I've heard of Honours...what scores do you need for that?

[pi]

Re: scores. LOL...it seems getting anything above 80 in uni is really hard.  Just wondering, why is that? I've got a conditional Excellence scholarship for Monash, do you guys think it would be hard to maintain 70% + as an average for that? Also, I've heard of Honours...what scores do you need for that?

80+ is hard because of the scope they can test us on, it's actually a HUGE scope and only knowing the big ideas is pretty much failure

With consistent effort, a 70 isn't too hard to get. You'll be able to gauage your progress from the first few exams (which are worth 5% each), so you'll get a good indication of what works and doesn't work from them before sitting the 30% and 20% exams in sem 2

edit: incorrect use of "too"

[Hancock]

If anyone tells you that they have a H1/HD average at university (80+), you should be very impressed. It's quite difficult to keep a consistent average like that.

[thushan]

If anyone tells you that they have a H1/HD average at university (80+), you should be very impressed. It's quite difficult to keep a consistent average like that.

Where's TT?

Average of ~100. LOL.

Oh btw - it's possible to manage travelling for 2 hours one way to Monash. Monash is 2 hours away from me one way, and I got around that by not going to lectures and learning off the textbooks. Managed to JUST get a HD average too, so it worked for me

[nisha]

You sound like you are passionate about exploring your other options, and Bsc can do that for you. I picked it, because I need and want to look and delve into subjects that are not only the asian five. Consider it carefully.

[shinny]

In terms of exploring other interests, seeing whether it's right for you via a science/biomed degree, I'm often quite sceptical of that argument because really, I think it's difficult to judge whether you like Med or not until you actually do it. Hating a science/biomed degree doesn't mean you'll hate Med, and liking it doesn't mean you'll like Med either. If you've got the opportunity, like pi said, just go for it and see how you go. That way you'll work out whether you're suited or not much earlier. You sound like you're quite suited for Medicine based on what you said, and due to that fact, I seriously reckon you'll have lingering regrets in the back of your mind pretty much for the rest of your life if you choose another path now.

That being said, Medicine is something that you'll probably develop a passion for once you get in. It really ropes you in and you'll find that those who were uncertain about it when they first got in (just about every undergrad), for those who stick around, really end up liking it - almost to the extent that it feels like a cult of some sort. We'll all downplay the seriousness of the impacts it has on your social life, family/marriage, stress levels etc, so take what we all say with a grain of salt. I won't deny it will have some impact, but it's all just a juggling act really.

From my own experiences though, the pre-clinical years I found were incredibly social at Monash given that you'll be on campus so much. While you'll have heaps of lectures and so on, just figure out yourself what's worth attending, and for the remainder, skip it and go to the sports centre for a group futsal sesh instead If you move out, or have friends that have come from interstate/moved out (which is a lot of them), you'll find there'll be heaps of house parties and whatnot as well. Things will start going downhill a bit in the clinical years as everyone's split up and everyone's just too tired from a full day of what's essentially work at hospital. Still, this isn't much different from what many of your non-Med friends will be doing at this stage as they would've graduated already and got jobs and such (this is mainly with respect to those who did commerce). Simply put, you'll have a better social life than those who are in full-time work, so you're not really losing out. In terms of marriage etc, I know several undergrads who got married this year in 4th year.

Re: scores. LOL...it seems getting anything above 80 in uni is really hard.  Just wondering, why is that? I've got a conditional Excellence scholarship for Monash, do you guys think it would be hard to maintain 70% + as an average for that? Also, I've heard of Honours...what scores do you need for that?

I'd say 70+ isn't too difficult; general rule is, if you're smart enough to get that scholarship, you'll be good enough to maintain it (Monash isn't stupid). The written exams are almost entirely multiple choice throughout the course (generally 1-2 short answer questions at most, if any, with ~100 MCQs). The clinical exams aren't too bad either as you can rack up almost 50% of the marks just by walking in, washing your hands, introducing yourself and asking a few basic questions. However, getting 80+ starts getting difficult because there's always going to be a few ridiculous MCQs that you just won't have ever studied or looked up. The course isn't well defined with Medicine as it is with VCE and they're allowed to test just about anything they want, so there'll always be stuff you don't know. With the clinical exams, you'll lose marks on silly subjective things, and especially time constraints. I swear some of the stations are just about physically impossible to finish in 8 minutes. Second class honours is 75%+ while first class is 80%+.

[Russ]

Your exams are seriously all MCQs? Wut.

[thushan]

Yup.

And I hear your second year exam is 4 hours and your third year exam is 5 hours!?

[Russ]

Maybe

What we're saying here, is go to Monash, they're practically giving the degree away there -.-

[thushan]

LOL go to hell.

I would imagine our 4th year is almost as much torture as your third year Russ

[Russ]

I don't know what you do in 4th year but...yeah...sure...of course

-pats-

[thushan]

Hehe. I think it's equivalent to your third year? General Practice, Psych, Paeds, Ob/Gyn, that's what we do I think. Shinny would know more.

*bird*