Honours Years?

[VivaTequila]

Sup guys.

I have a mate who goes to La Trobe (from memory), and he's studying a Bachelor of Neuroscience or something along those lines. It's an intensive course in understanding neuroscience, sensory systems, memory, psychology, and everything to do with the brain and nervous systems, all wrapped up into a very specialized undergraduate degree.

Anyway, he's just completed his second year and is entering his third, and he's really shocked me by informing me that I need to start doing stuff to make things work for me academically down the track.

This year edit: Last year (2012 in his 2nd year), he got a position as a voluntary intern working for the Melbourne University Postgraduate Medicine Dean of Admissions (not sure of his official title, but that guy) in some hospital or practice somewhere in Melbourne helping run research programs. Next This year he's continuing it all and supposedly gets to watch a brain surgery, just because he's an intern, and all of this amazing stuff. He's well respected as an astute intern for all the work he does and he's very socially aware, despite going to what he's even called a second rate uni with decent (75-80ish average) marks there.

He told me that I needed to do this kind of stuff and get an 85+ average across the board if I wanted to be able to get into an Honours year. And I strongly think that that is what I want to do.

Now luckily I have taken a DipLang and I'm at uni for another year anyway, so I'm about to enter my second of four years. I still have 3 full years left at university to plan this out.

What do I need to do for competitive entry into an honours year, and what kind of students are they looking out for? What do you do in an Honours year? Why are they beneficial? Can someone debrief as to what they are and how they work in greater detail than "They get you into PhD's" because that's the extent of my knowledge here. Can people complete Honours years across unis? Overseas? On exchange? What about components of their PhD work?

Thanks guys.

[Eriny]

Getting into honours can be quite competitive when it comes to certain courses (psychology is very competitive, I don't know about neuro but I suspect it could be too). The most important thing though is to actually use your third year to arrange supervision/a project. It's much much easier if your proposed supervisor knows you. Sometimes people with really awesome marks don't get into honours simply because there is nobody on academic staff suitable to supervise (usually if your research interests are really removed from those of available staff).

The required average would depend on competitiveness, usually unis say that you need a 65+ average to get into honours (it varies) as a minimum requirement. In heaps of disciples, if you meet the minimum it's often enough to get in because there isn't a whole lot of demand. I would say 80+ would suffice for competitive programmes but I don't really know (better to contact the honours coordinator than trust anything you read here or hear from a friend!). With extracurricular activities, it can really help (and doesn't hurt later down the track career-wise either) but whether or not it's necessary is again down to how competitive getting into the honours programme is.

[VivaTequila]

Alright nice, I might try to and do what my friend has recommended. I want to do something in a pharmacology/chemistry discipline as I'm double majoring in Medicinal Chem and Pharmacology and want to do an Honours year on a Chem research project.

I'll see if I can get into something at CSL

[marr]

Also, considering that your friend goes to La Trobe, do you think there would be a bias towards internal applicants which thus creates a higher cut off for external applicants? I don't actually know the answer to this but you'd think universities would prefer internal applicants?

[Eriny]

There is definitely a bias towards internal applicants because it's easier to arrange supervision and discuss potential topics with a lecturer you already know.

[Russ]

It really depends on who you're applying to. I emailed somebody to ask to meet and discuss a project he had; we had a chat and he emailed me later intimating that I could work there if I wanted the place. He asked briefly about marks when were talking but he seemed willing to take my word for it haha

[VivaTequila]

How do you go about asking if you can do volunteer work? Who are potential candidates? Is it research labs at places like the Bio21 Institute? I have no idea how to go about even planning it.

[tek]

How do you go about asking if you can do volunteer work? Who are potential candidates? Is it research labs at places like the Bio21 Institute? I have no idea how to go about even planning it.

You can try applying for the Undergraduate Research Opportunities Program (UROP) run by the BIO21 for 2nd and 3rd year students. However it is highly competitive, therefore you need good grades and have to do a pretty good interview (I failed the interview). Also some labs have their own work experience programs, so you should also check them individually. I did work experience at the lab where I did my honours year and it helped me get my foot in the door. However, out of the 6 honours students in my year I was the only person with previous experience in the lab all the others had just had a meeting with their prospective supervisors. Also you shouldn't be too stressed about grades I know of people who averaged between 70 and 80 and got in. It depends on the supervisor, some care about the grades and some don't.

I think the honours year is a great experience. It was probably my most enjoyable year of my undergraduate degree. I was lucky enough to be working in a great lab with great people and had a research project that suited my interests. That said, the year was by far the hardest school year I have ever had. You are essentially working as a researcher, while also having to complete assignments as well. I was at the lab five days a week ( and sometimes weekends) from 9 to 5 and it was not rare for me to go overtime. Also scientific research is tough. Experiments don't always work and you a have to spend time problem solving/optimising. There was probably a period of a bit over a month where none of my experiments were working, and I had to change different variables in order to fix them. But thats science (this was a phrase I heard a lot from people in the lab last year).

Regarding your question about the benefits, I think the biggest advantage is that it provides valuable experience in a working research environment. As a result, it is the easiest path to working (as a research assistant) in a lab. Also it can help determine if you want to continue research as your career (i.e. pHD)

[mark_alec]

You can try apply for the Undergraduate Research Opportunities Program (UROP) run by the BIO21 for 2nd and 3rd year students.

Do this! I cannot recommend the program highly enough. If you are lucky you will even get a job out of it.

[VivaTequila]

Holy crap. I want to get into that. That's insane.

But I have dodgy first year marks, I'd really need to blitz it in second year.

If I can get all 80+s in my language subjects and perhaps scrape through in the 3 chem subjects with H1s then would I have decent chances at getting in? Or is it not that bad? Because my 2nd year subjects scale for more, I'd need to do better in them to really boost up the average.

First year marks:

Sem 1:
58 Calc 1
77 Bio 1
77 Russian 1
80 Chem 1

Sem 2:
70 Phys 2
74 Bio 2
79 Chem 2
82 Russian 2

What's the minimum I'll need to get across the board next semester to be competitive for something like that?

[Hancock]

I wonder what engineering students would do here. Apparently 'keen' engineering students can participate.

[VivaTequila]

http://www2.chemistry.unimelb.edu.au/courses/postgrad/2011/BScHonours-CourseStructure.pdf

SGPA:
Standard Grade Point Average – the weighted grade point average of the most recent 300 points of a completed tertiary degree, but excluding 25 points of subjects with the lowest
results within the earliest 200 points.

I can dismiss Calc 1 and Physics 2!

[QuantumJG]

Holy crap. I want to get into that. That's insane.

But I have dodgy first year marks, I'd really need to blitz it in second year.

If I can get all 80+s in my language subjects and perhaps scrape through in the 3 chem subjects with H1s then would I have decent chances at getting in? Or is it not that bad? Because my 2nd year subjects scale for more, I'd need to do better in them to really boost up the average.

First year marks:

Sem 1:
58 Calc 1
77 Bio 1
77 Russian 1
80 Chem 1

Sem 2:
70 Phys 2
74 Bio 2
79 Chem 2
82 Russian 2

What's the minimum I'll need to get across the board next semester to be competitive for something like that?

I'm pretty sure that with honours, your third year is the one that's looked at the most. I wouldn't be afraid of getting into honours, when you're on an H2A average (if you keep that up in honours, a PhD is possible).

I have a friend who is starting a MSc(Physics) this year who was able to do some really cool lab work from the middle of his second year in undergraduate, because he showed a flare with lab work. The way he did it, was by having a good rapport with the experimentalists. Now he works at the Australian Synchrotron, and last year he spent a couple months at the LHC.

[mark_alec]

I wonder what engineering students would do here. Apparently 'keen' engineering students can participate.

In the past there were bioengineering projects available at MCRI, otherwise if you are happy programming there are quite a few computational and bioinformatics projects available.

[VivaTequila]

What kinds of co-curricular things should you do to get into an Honours year at your uni?