So I go out to dinner and it looks like there have been lots of posts on this. I'll start by defending what I had to say earlier.
I don't think any of you realise how upsetting these comments actually are to hear.
People say that they have nothing wrong with the LGBTQIA+ (whatever the acronym is now) but then try and justify how they don't support gay marriage and compare homosexuality to incest? Seriously? All of our life we are asked if we have a boyfriend or girlfriend yet. We see heterosexual relationships portrayed in movies, on tv and in books. You walk down the street and see straight couples kissing and holding hands. Imagine for a second how that would feel when you know you would never be happy in a relationship like that. You want to but you can't and everyone around you is telling you that you should be.
And the reason that there are things like pride parades and even the whole rainbow profile pictures on facebook at the moment, is to let people know that they are supported. Because it's difficult. Honestly, I can tell you that it's like getting a hug from all of my facebook friends and them saying that they don't think there is anything wrong with me. Because there isn't.
Religion needs to be taken out of this. Those who are against gay marriage are basically pushing their beliefs on other people. Marriage has nothing to do with religion anymore. I don't care whether you like it or not but the fact is, gay people are here. Denying anyone basic rights isn't going to prevent that and it's just going to cause harm.
When I mean I don't want to see these rainbow dps anymore, it's because it looks as if people are just jumping onto the bandwagon now. It's debatable whether or not the people displaying rainbow images are doing so because they genuinely support gay marriage or because it's cool to do so. This is quite a common occurrence on Facebook and it honestly sickens me. My hatred of these rainbow images has nothing to do with opposition towards the movement. As I said in my post, I'm neither for nor against it.
Okay, I do not understand how a person can relate homosexuality to incest, I just cant and I personally find it very offensive. However on your ground of an incest couple not having any kids (which is very unlikely and prevents many of the problems relating to incest and why it is illegal in the first place) I will give you a reason just to ponder.
With incest you can opt to find someone who is not related to you to have sex/and or a relationship with (it is a choice). When you are gay, you are attracted to your own gender and you cannot just opt out of having sex/and or a relationship with a member of the same sex and start having one with a member of the opposite sex, that would be asking you to be something that you are not. Therefor you are relating an orientation to a choice and that is not valid.
Also I would just like to remind you that without arguing all of the negative factors that incest imposes and just picking and choosing the ones that best suits you, you are not putting up a valid argument for relating incest to homosexuality. You have to consider all aspects of the issue.
Sure, you have every right to feel offended at my analogy and I was conscious that my post may elicit such a response. However, assuming that the people in consideration only fall in love with one person at a time, how do you distinguish love bordering on romantic between two siblings and love between two men or two women? If one person develops a romantic attraction towards their sibling, they cannot simply 'choose' to not love them. Nor is it a choice for them to love their own sibling that way; most people, given a conscious choice, would probably choose to not harbour those sorts of feelings for their siblings to avoid clashes with social norms. Therefore, I cannot agree with your first objection.
With regards to picking and choosing, I would like you to list any other negative factors related to incest itself (I will clarify this point below when I address another point), and not something like power imbalance which is totally different.
Yes. Incest is completely different to gay marriage. I think my opinion would change if it were perhaps second cousins or maybe cousins but brother and sister? That's wrong. And you'd have to work our where the lines are between abuse/emotional abuse and two people who love each other and want to marry. Because say one sibling was taken advantage of when they were younger or 'groomed' by an older sibling- that would be wrong. If two people wanted to get married and then found out they were siblings? That's different.
These things shouldn't even be compared.
Here, I believe you have misconstrued my point. I am discussing incest as a concept, not the specific scenario where one family member abuses their position of power in the family for their own selfish desires. Incest is not restricted to the case where an elder brother persuades his innocent little sister that fulfilling his desires is ok. It is, in general, when two closely genetically related people engage in a sexual relationship. There is nothing in that which relates to how this relationship came about. The moral perverseness of the grooming instance you brought up does not arise from incest; rather, it arises from an abuse of power.
I would like you to clarify why you think these two should not be compared. A century ago, homosexuality was viewed as abhorrent; now, incest is still viewed as atrocious. The recent pro-gay movement has served to broaden the public's tolerance of different sexual preferences. My question is, why can we not broaden the public's tolerance of sexual preferences further? In suggesting this, I am implicitly agreeing with the fundamental assumption that underpins the pro-gay movement; that everyone has a right for their love to be recognised. Therefore, I do not see why my comparison is so repulsive.
Well, over the past years this forum has been my inspiration, I've looked up to a lot of people on here and I still do. However this thread has made me feel really uncomfortable and I can only imagine what any gay young teen on this site would feel like reading it. Nobody seems to really be open to anyone else's opinion and it's just unhelpful.
I apologise if I am in any way responsible for your disillusionment. I am only wishing to encourage more intelligent debate about issues related to homosexuality and have never denounced any gay person on the basis of their sexual orientation. However, I strongly agree with Russ here and believe that although debate about that which is dear to you may be uncomfortable, as long as such discussion is conducted in a civilised and polite manner. After all, do you not want to make your opinions about homosexuality heard in the hope of reducing misunderstandings and bigotry?
As for the previous discussion on sins in religion, I don't get how you can knowingly commit a sin and then expect to get forgiven for it. This might be due to my relative ignorance regarding religion, but it seems to me Christianity would rather people not knowingly go against its teachings expecting to get away with it.
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