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December 30, 2025, 07:48:29 pm

Author Topic: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread  (Read 107135 times)  Share 

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slothpomba

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2013, 08:10:44 am »
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Good explanation MJRomeo81. I guess with how the world is going increasingly digital it really is an infrastructure investment like roads or ports. There's no way a private company would cough up to make a massive investment we need like this either.

Which there's no real decision to made on given both parties are offering the same bullshit.

That's probably more of a reflection of what the public wants than anything.

The two big parties are forced to be big-tent parts and centrist because if they weren't, they wouldn't get any votes. This is particularly true since we have compulsory voting so they really do have to represent everyone (rather than the USA where it might be distorted).

You can change the view of any one party but it just means it'll bleed votes to the other one. The only real way to fix this is to change the mind of the public.

I can't say much about asylum seekers but if by social issues you mean gay marriage, i really think that is inevitable sooner or later.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 08:26:45 am by slothpomba »

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brenden

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2013, 06:34:41 pm »
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Which there's no real decision to made on given both parties are offering the same bullshit.
The question asked for top five issues I care about.
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MJRomeo81

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2013, 07:40:50 pm »
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MJRomeo, I'm confused.  I was responding to what you quoted wrt Abbott's comment on the average household usage.  Now you seem annoyed I didn't address businesses in my response. 

Oh no no I'm not annoyed. An earlier post requested me to explain the NBN in general so I just went along with that. I'll edit my post now.

I was emphasizing businesses since it's important that the general public understand the realities of the issue.
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slothpomba

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2013, 08:03:58 pm »
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Off the back of Jaymes Diaz infamous stuff up not being able to remember 6 points, we have a list of political stuff ups through history, courtesy of SBS. Really worth a read/watch.

The infamous tony abbott bobblehead is in that list. Here's a rarely seen alternative angle that's at least twice as creepy.


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Starlight

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2013, 08:49:16 pm »
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Off the back of Jaymes Diaz infamous stuff up not being able to remember 6 points, we have a list of political stuff ups through history, courtesy of SBS. Really worth a read/watch.


Interesting comment on youtube with regards to the 6-point video

"He only responded how his Leader Tony Abbott would have. If everyone doesn't get it by now. The Liberal party have no policies yet. They're going straight into this election with an attack Labor, attack Rudd agenda, then slash and burn everything and blame Labor when they get in."
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vox nihili

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2013, 09:04:25 pm »
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The question asked for top five issues I care about.

If you managed to list all 5, we know you're not voting LNP!
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Professor Polonsky

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2013, 09:16:39 pm »
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vote compass



1. Economic management / taxation
2. Climate change (include transport here, I suppose)
3. Workplace relations
4. Education
5. Republicanism
6. Social issues
7. Health
8. Defence (continued involvement in the War on Terrorism under US leadership, don't really care about specifics of funding)
9. Drug laws
10. NBN

Don't really care about the rest.

Stick

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2013, 09:39:57 pm »
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Lol my political compass test rightly showed that I don't align with any political party. XD
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Professor Polonsky

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2013, 11:40:15 pm »
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Political compass =/= Vote compass

The former is crap, the latter is okay :P

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2013, 01:04:07 am »
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Here's the basics on the NBN, basically FTTP VS FTTN

The NBN wasn't designed just for everyday Australians' internet usage.

The most important thing about the NBN isn't its speed to rip torrents — even though its fibre-optic services will easily provide 1Gbps or eventually 10Gbps connections for those who need them. The value of the NBN is that it will allow every business in the country to link with every other branch office, business partner, etc. at the same speed as they would use over their internal network. When even your remotest offices have 1Gbps access to the rest of the company, data remains instantly accessible by remote staff as if they were sitting in the same office. While it's easy for businesses to set up 1Gbps networks inside their four walls, they've constantly had to compensate for slow wide-area network (WAN) connections.

Australia's broadband speeds are some of the slowest in the developed world. Where FTTP is available, the cost is so high that only the largest businesses can afford it. If we continue to rely on copper, our network will be overwhelmed by 2016.  The exponential growth in data predicted over the next few years suggests we need to act now.

The answer is not to go backwards. The answer is not to continue to rely on copper in any form. Fibre to the premises is basically future proof technology since it provides the high speeds and reliability required for advanced digital services and can support a wide range of high bandwidth applications at once. It can also be easily upgraded to meet increasing demands for bandwidth.

We've all heard the stories of people who cannot sign up for DSL service because there are no ports left. Or paying for 20 Mbps connections but only getting 2 Mbps due to old copper wires and/or distance from the exchange. Or losing connectivity every time it rains due to dodgy maintenance. FTTN won't solve those problems. FTTP will.

Why is the Coalition even proposing anything at all? Instead of giving us the opportunity to keep up with the rest of the world, they've decided to defer the expense until a later date. Their policy takes us back 10 years. That's how much of a backward step it is.

All that's needed to increase speed well beyond that is to upgrade equipment at each end of the fibre - relatively cheap as there's no civil works involved - the fibre stays in place. Compare that to the coalition's proposal - the copper will need to be ripped up and replaced with fibre, with costly upgrades and/or replacement also needing to occur at each node .Over time, the cost of Turnbull's plan will be far greater.

When it arrives, it's here to stay. It doesn't rust. The signal doesn't get dodgy with the rain. It is future proof. It is an investment in the future of Australia.

I'm sorry, total disagreement here. Sources working in telecommunications have given me strong reasoning in thinking that FTTP is a silly idea.

Firstly, not every FTTP connection will be connected at the maximum speed. You pay at different scales for different speeds, because you are taking up a different amount of resources at the exchange. That is to say, most of this 1Gbps/400mbps speed you are talking about is actually wasted bandwidth until media consumption increases dramatically, and people become prepared for fork out for faster internet. The closest application I can think of would be for 4k-resolution video streams in a few years.

Secondly, the LNP/Coalition's NBN plan includes options for premises to upgrade the premise-->RIM connection to fibre, at a cost of several thousand dollars to the consumer, should they require the higher speeds. From a business perspective, any business that require LAN speed transfers between different offices would have enough capital to make this investment (many already do). From a home perspective, media consumption is a luxury, and a fibre connection raises the selling value of the premise, it should be an investment by the consumer rather than a burden on the tax payer.

Also, it is not entirely correct to say it would be cheap to upgrade the FTTP connection speed in the future. Even in the FTTP infrastructure, there are street level multiplexes that are costly to upgrade. Exchange equipment are even more expensive, since they need to handle all of the data. The levels of upgrade (RIM + exchange) are no different to the FTTN infrastructure. You may argue that copper wires between homes and RIM may need to be replaced by fibre, but that is an argument of cost-now (FTTP) vs cost-in-the-future(FTTN). Also, I still believe that cost (in the order of several thousand dollars) should be borne by the consumer, not the tax payer.

On the other hand, Telstra has much VDSL-capable equipment at the exchange and RIM level, ready to deploy, and RIM-->exchange connections are already fibre. Considering that the consumer will be charged with funding fibre from home-->RIM, the cost of deploying VDSL tomorrow is actually very small. It requires some bullying of Telstra, but we have done enough of that already with the forced purchase of Telstra's copper network (which is apparently okay?). The significant cost comes in installing RIMs to areas that do not already have them. This cost is the same between FTTP and FTTN infrastructure.

As a computer enthusiast, I obviously prefer FTTP. But, as a tax payer, FTTN is in every respect a more sensible idea, especially during a time when our debt is growing. FTTN is not the fastest, but it does not block upgrade paths nor introduce unnecessary waste of hardware. Labor is not excused from scaremongering in this campaign against LNP's FTTN plan.

Admittedly, FTTP is more attractive to voters because it is a better product, and an average voter would rather fast internet for "free" instead of an option to pay a few thousand dollars. But, there is no free lunch, it pays to look at the bigger picture. The money saved from FTTP to FTTN can be better spent in so many other places.

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slothpomba

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2013, 07:53:25 am »
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Interesting comment on youtube with regards to the 6-point video

"He only responded how his Leader Tony Abbott would have. If everyone doesn't get it by now. The Liberal party have no policies yet. They're going straight into this election with an attack Labor, attack Rudd agenda, then slash and burn everything and blame Labor when they get in."

Now that i'm not sure about. I know a lot of us like to tease Abbott (or any politician) but he is a very smart man, he was a Rhodes Scholar. Honestly, he does seem like a half decent bloke outside his day job, i'd have a beer with him. I doubt the coalition is stupid though, people are making it out like they're run by monkeys. I'm sure they do have policies or will have some policies (obviously in need to govern), they're just not released yet.

I defended Abbott... i feel dirty...gonna go take a shower.

If you managed to list all 5, we know you're not voting LNP!

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I'm sorry, total disagreement here. Sources working in telecommunications have given me strong reasoning in thinking that FTTP is a silly idea.

Firstly, not every FTTP connection will be connected at the maximum speed. You pay at different scales for different speeds, because you are taking up a different amount of resources at the exchange. That is to say, most of this 1Gbps/400mbps speed you are talking about is actually wasted bandwidth until media consumption increases dramatically, and people become prepared for fork out for faster internet. The closest application I can think of would be for 4k-resolution video streams in a few years.

I don't know if we can anticipate how fast our bandwidth needs would grow. If you go back to when i was born in the early 90's, i don't think anyone could have forecast the massive growth we have today. Considering how fast technology is growing, i don't think we can reasonably anticipate what the next 20 years will look like either. We already have streaming TV for instance, who's to say that in the future that most TV won't be delivered over the internet?

With increased hard-drive size and computing power, everything is growing in file size as well. If you look at a the most current Photoshop software, windows or Microsoft Word *now* compared to 20 years ago, the size difference is striking. Compression algorithms have gotten better so we can have more for less but at the same time, our media is generally much higher quality, no grainy 256 colour gifs. I think this trend will continue. E-commerce, working from home and E-education is exploding as well.

I don't know much about the internet but personally, i don't see this as something we need *now*, i see it as preparing for the future. If you look at some of our major freeways or bridges, they're at higher capacity than they were when they were originally built. Look at our ports and airports as well. I really have no doubt with the insane growth of data consumption that this is something we need going into the future and we have to prepare now.

But, as a tax payer, FTTN is in every respect a more sensible idea, especially during a time when our debt is growing. FTTN is not the fastest, but it does not block upgrade paths nor introduce unnecessary waste of hardware. Labor is not excused from scaremongering in this campaign against LNP's FTTN plan.

Admittedly, FTTP is more attractive to voters because it is a better product, and an average voter would rather fast internet for "free" instead of an option to pay a few thousand dollars. But, there is no free lunch, it pays to look at the bigger picture. The money saved from FTTP to FTTN can be better spent in so many other places.

I'm no economist but the national broadband network is essentially a profit making venture run by NBN corporation. In their report they forecast they'll make a profit for the government by around ~2030 (including paying back all the debts). The return according to the report will be 7.1%, which is much higher than the government gets on bonds. Seems like a worthy investment to me. Putting aside its sheer rate of return, one thing you cant quantify in that profit figure is its value as a piece of infrastructure.


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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2013, 04:49:09 pm »
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Who needs to make fun of right-wing nationalists when they do it for you!

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2013, 06:05:06 pm »
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Now that i'm not sure about. I know a lot of us like to tease Abbott (or any politician) but he is a very smart man, he was a Rhodes Scholar. Honestly, he does seem like a half decent bloke outside his day job, i'd have a beer with him.

What a crock of shit. Rhodes scholarships (and many scholarships like it) is no indicator of intelligence, it was basically a scholarship for going to Melbourne Grammar or Scotch and being good at sport + decent at academics.

Abbott is a quasi-intellectual type and nothing more.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 06:08:00 pm by 816 »

pi

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Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2013, 07:43:34 pm »
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What a crock of shit. Rhodes scholarships (and many scholarships like it) is no indicator of intelligence, it was basically a scholarship for going to Melbourne Grammar or Scotch and being good at sport + decent at academics.

Abbott is a quasi-intellectual type and nothing more.

I agree with the gist of this, he's actually not that intelligent.