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April 26, 2026, 09:46:57 pm

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Merlyn

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concept clarifications
« on: October 07, 2013, 08:48:18 pm »
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Hello! I'm revising biology at the moment and I've encountered a few.. conflicts. haha, I'd really appreciate it if you could help me clarify some of this.

Regarding the process of exporting proteins, does mRNA leave the nuclear pore and head towards a ribosome within the ER or a free ribosome before getting packaged and exported via exocytosis out of the cell? And if it does go to the rough ER, what does the ER do other than make it into a protein? Does it just offer a nice smooth route to the golgi?

For protein structures, I'm struggling over the difference of quartenary and tertiary structures. My teacher and peers keep telling me the difference is in the 3D shape, but aren't both of them 3D in terms of having secondary structures held together by various bonds?

What cells other than macrophages and Natural killer cells have class II MHC markers? And are they used to present antigens of a pathogen so that specifically, t helper cells can activate an immune response? What other cells use MHC II markers for attack? Do Tc cells recognise the antigens and kill cells with that antigen on their membranes, or do they just check the MHC I markers for self membranes and attack if there isn't?

Thanks!
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Irving4Prez

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 09:05:19 pm »
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Regarding the process of exporting proteins, does mRNA leave the nuclear pore and head towards a ribosome within the ER or a free ribosome before getting packaged and exported via exocytosis out of the cell? And if it does go to the rough ER, what does the ER do other than make it into a protein? Does it just offer a nice smooth route to the golgi?

mRNA heads towards a ribosome within the cytoplasm of a eukaryotic cell. If it does head to the RER, the polypeptide is modified moderately within the cisternal space of the edopasmic reticulum. Smooth endoplasmic reticulum synthesises steroids.

For protein structures, I'm struggling over the difference of quartenary and tertiary structures. My teacher and peers keep telling me the difference is in the 3D shape, but aren't both of them 3D in terms of having secondary structures held together by various bonds?

Quaternary structures have 2 or more polypeptide chains whereas tertiary structures only have one chain. Thus, a 3D shape is a mutual feature.

What cells other than macrophages and Natural killer cells have class II MHC markers? And are they used to present antigens of a pathogen so that specifically, t helper cells can activate an immune response? What other cells use MHC II markers for attack? Do Tc cells recognise the antigens and kill cells with that antigen on their membranes, or do they just check the MHC I markers for self membranes and attack if there isn't?

B and T cells also have class II MHC markers. Antigen presenting cells such as macrophages, engulf an antigen and display a component of the antigen as an epitope on its cell surface. A helper T cell will bind the the epitope and become activated. This helper T cell will bind to a B cell and induce clonal expansion of the B cell. Cytotoxic T cells kill virus infected cells and T cells identify whether a cell is classified as a self or non self.

Hope this helps :)

Yacoubb

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 10:34:44 am »
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Regarding the process of exporting proteins, does mRNA leave the nuclear pore and head towards a ribosome within the ER or a free ribosome before getting packaged and exported via exocytosis out of the cell? And if it does go to the rough ER, what does the ER do other than make it into a protein? Does it just offer a nice smooth route to the golgi?

Okay the important thing is the destination of the protein. If the protein will carry out its function within the cell, the protein is synthesised at the free ribosomes. However, if the protein (e.g. insulin hormone) needs to be exported out of the cell, it is synthesised on the ribosomes attached to the rough endoplasmic recticulum. Take that as a rule - remember, the rough endoplasmic reticulum partially modifies the protein, but mainly just transports it within the cell to the Golgi complex, where the protein is modified further, and packaged into secretory vesicles that bud off the golgi body, and leave the cell by exocytosis.

For protein structures, I'm struggling over the difference of quartenary and tertiary structures. My teacher and peers keep telling me the difference is in the 3D shape, but aren't both of them 3D in terms of having secondary structures held together by various bonds?

The quaternary structure of a protein refers to a protein being made up of two or more polypeptide chains. The quaternary structure just refers to the overall 3D shape of the protein as a result of bonds forming between the side chains of the polypeptide (i.e. bonds forming between the R-variable groups of the amino acids). But you're right, both the tertiary and quaternary are 3D shapes of a protein. Not all proteins need to have a quaternary structure, but ALL proteins must have a tertiary structure. Remember, the tertiary structure of a protein is critical to its function (e.g. the tertiary shape of an enzyme's active site is specifically complementary to one specific type of substrate that the enzyme acts on).

What cells other than macrophages and Natural killer cells have class II MHC markers? And are they used to present antigens of a pathogen so that specifically, t helper cells can activate an immune response? What other cells use MHC II markers for attack? Do Tc cells recognise the antigens and kill cells with that antigen on their membranes, or do they just check the MHC I markers for self membranes and attack if there isn't?

Macrophages, B-lymphocytes and T-lymphocytes possess Class II MHC markers. For example; a macrophage binds to, engulfs and destroys a pathogen; once the pathogen's antigens have been fragmented (and epitopes produced), the MHC class II markers of the macrophage grab these epitopes and migrate to the membrane of the macrophage. They are then known as an antigen-presenting cell. Why? Funnily enough, they present the antigens. Once a macrophage docks with a helper-T cell, helper-T cells release interleukin-2 (you don't need to know this), and a humoral response (mediated by B-cells, antibodies) and a cell-mediated response (mediated by cytotoxic t cells) is activated.

When a cell (just a nucleated cell) becomes infected (e.g. epithelial cells of the small intestine), epitopes (antigen fragments) are grabbed by MHC Class I markers, which again migrate to the outer surface of the cell, signalling cytotoxic t-cells. When a specific cytotoxic t-cell recognises the specific antigen presented on the MHC Class I marker, it docks with the cell, releasing perforin. Perforin is a protein released, which punches holes through the plasma membrane, lysing the cell and eventually destroying it.



Hope this helped! :) And Irving4Prez is also right; thought a second input may be helpful haha

Merlyn

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 10:02:01 pm »
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Thank you both! Really helped in un-confuzzlin me. cheers
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Merlyn

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 12:44:43 pm »
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Hm, I have a few more questions though I'm not sure if anyone's going to see this.. but

Why are antibiotics only effective against bacteria? Why not for fungi and Viruses as well?
Are histamines only secreted  in response to allergens attached to mast cells?
Is heat always a by-product of exergonic reactions?
Do viruses have only either of RNA and DNA but never both?
Do both tertiary and quartenary structures have 2 or more polypeptide chains?
Is ATP formed in the light dependent phase of photosynthesis? (if it is, wouldn't that make it an exergonic process?)
If the genetic material of prokaryotic cells consist of plasmids, which are single doubled stranded circular DNA, is it correct to say that they have double stranded DNA?
Is water made at the end of Glycolysis?

Thank ya U_U
I'm wondering how everyone's at with revision and exam prep.. there's about 2 more weeks and I'm only about 75% sure with my theory. My exam scores have been... below average though. Is a 40/75 really bad... D:
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pi

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2013, 12:48:30 pm »
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Why are antibiotics only effective against bacteria? Why not for fungi and Viruses as well?

The way they're designed!

eg. beta-lactam antibiotics work by inhibiting the synthesis of peptidoglycan, which is a layer of bacterial cell walls. This wouldn't work with viruses etc as that's not an appropriate/viable target :)

Are histamines only secreted  in response to allergens attached to mast cells?

Are you asking about the role? If so they have many other roles too, including being a neurotransmitter in the gut you odn't have to know this). Important to know they are produced by mast cells and basophils.

Is heat always a by-product of exergonic reactions?

Exergonic/endergonic really discuss free energy rather than exothermic/endothermic which discuss heat. As far as I know not all exergonic reactions are exothermic, but for VCE Bio I think it's safe to assume the two terms are the same.

Do viruses have only either of RNA and DNA but never both?

Yeah, either.

Do both tertiary and quartenary structures have 2 or more polypeptide chains?

Tertiary can be a single chain, just folded into a 3D functional shape (eg. myoglobin). Quartenary structures tend to have multiple chains with links between them (eg. haemoglobin).

Is ATP formed in the light dependent phase of photosynthesis? (if it is, wouldn't that make it an exergonic process?)

Yep 3ATP are produced (I think), I wouldn't bother breaking down light dep vs light indep in terms of exergonic/endergonic processes, look at photosynthesis as a whole instead :)

If the genetic material of prokaryotic cells consist of plasmids, which are single doubled stranded circular DNA, is it correct to say that they have double stranded DNA?

Yes :)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 01:30:02 pm by Snow Brown »

Irving4Prez

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 01:38:19 pm »
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Yep 3ATP are produced (I think), I wouldn't bother breaking down light dep vs light indep in terms of exergonic/endergonic processes, look at photosynthesis as a whole instead

Isn't there a production of 18 ATP in the light dependent reaction?

Irving4Prez

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 01:44:17 pm »
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I'm wondering how everyone's at with revision and exam prep.. there's about 2 more weeks and I'm only about 75% sure with my theory. My exam scores have been... below average though. Is a 40/75 really bad... D:

You should finish your revision before attempting exams :P

When I started off practice exams, my averages weren't ideal. Within 5-10 exams my average increased significantly and after that, my percentages were gradually increasing so you'll get there :D

Merlyn

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Re: concept clarifications
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2013, 02:46:09 pm »
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You should finish your revision before attempting exams :P

When I started off practice exams, my averages weren't ideal. Within 5-10 exams my average increased significantly and after that, my percentages were gradually increasing so you'll get there :D

psshhtt
Well I did finish my revision, but whilst going through the exams, I realise there were quite a few holes in my knowledge. Partly the fault of teachers and partly because I didn't quite get into the concepts as deeply as I probably should have.
Hopefully, I'll see better marks in my coming exams (it seems that with every exam I do, I learn something new xc)
But yeah, thanks for your replies!
And yours too Sir Snow Brown.  ;D
Eng[45] Psych[45] Studio Arts[46]
2013: 97.5 ATAR
2014: BA@UoM

Feel free to contact me if you need help in any of those subjects. ^^