HSC maths and science on the decline

[Thu Thu Train]

http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=12516

Urgent review of HSC policy, including the reinstatement of maths and science as compulsory subjects, is needed in order to curb a "disappointing" decline in the disciplines over the past decade, a new report by University of Sydney researchers has found.

Talking point: Do you think that the same is true for VCE? What could be done to improve the enrolments in maths and science subjects?

[pi]

http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=12516

Talking point: Do you think that the same is true for VCE? What could be done to improve the enrolments in maths and science subjects?

Now, where do I start on VCE Physics.

[BasicAcid]

Now, where do I start on VCE Physics.

The stuff we learn is pretty interesting.
They need to get rid of the cheat sheet and for motion, take a more spesh-like approach. I'm not sure how else they can improve the other areas, but we need more girls to do physics.


But I don't really think the declination is a problem for VCE. The numbers seem fine to me. (I think it's mainly because methods is a prerequisite for many courses though.)

Although if they want to improve the numbers, they need to start from the roots.
The year prep-10 curriculum needs to be stepped up.

[simba]

Although if they want to improve the numbers, they need to start from the roots.
The year prep-10 curriculum needs to be stepped up.

This x10000. I found junior maths okay, but in science I didn't learn a single thing (and not from lack of attention) this deterred me from picking more than only the prerequisite science for what I wanted. In hindsight, I think I would have chosen biology or physics if I actually had a decent idea as to what they entailed!

[enwiabe]

I think it's aguably worse in VCE. Consider that in 2003, we had 6319 students undertaking specialist maths (source: http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Documents/statistics/section2/vce_spec_math_03.pdf) compared with 3882 last year... (source: http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Documents/statistics/2012/section2/vce_specialist_mathematics_12.pdf)

I find that to be utterly horrifying. We've lost FORTY PER CENT of kids from the highest level of maths on a pure numbers basis. And that does not account for population growth. In 8 years. This is beyond a crisis, this is a complete failure of the system.

[chasej]

Science and maths isn't the be all and end all. We need individuals from other disciplines. I would argue that 1) you shouldn't force someone to do something they don't want to and 2) way to much emphasize is placed on maths/sciences wiyh specialist high schools for them and what not.

[ninwa]

Science and maths isn't the be all and end all. We need individuals from other disciplines. I would argue that 1) you shouldn't force someone to do something they don't want to and 2) way to much emphasize is placed on maths/sciences wiyh specialist high schools for them and what not.

Yeah, I'd love to see a school like JMSS or VCASS, but centered on humanities/languages/cultural studies. There's a shocking lack of awareness about the importance of studying the arts and what they actually entail. (I still get comments about why the hell I'm studying drawing in uni, I mean honestly)

edit: I don't think high level maths like specialist maths is that essential unless you are planning to study a maths-heavy subject in uni. Otherwise, year 10 level is more than sufficient for everyday life.

[Stick]

Although if they want to improve the numbers, they need to start from the roots.
The year prep-10 curriculum needs to be stepped up.

Too damn right. It's the only viable solution to ensure that those that conclude their Maths/Science education at Year 10 still have an adequate foundation and understanding.

Forcing kids to do it during HSC (or VCE) in my opinion would be on the whole fruitless. Coming from a school where the students feel obligated to receive an education and are not really self-motivated, forcing people to learn stuff that they're just not interested in will result in more apathy. At the HSC (or VCE) level, people should be able to study what they're interested in and what they're good at. Everyone has different skills in life and everyone will need different skills in life. The potential increase in Mathematics/Science ability would be minimal.

[lala1911]

Maths should be compulsory, it's used in everyday life and improves problem solving skills.

Not sure about science though, always hated science.

[slothpomba]

I don't think it's a bad thing. We treat VCE students like capable adults and respect their choice to choose what they like but then we backhand them for fluctuations in demand in the subjects we like? Fundamentally, they didn't choose it because they didn't want to do it. You can argue why but thats the short and skinny of it. So it might be that the school didn't instill enough love for math or science or something like that but shock horror, not everyone does or will like math or science. It would be a fairly hefty chunk of kids as well.

Maths should be compulsory, it's used in everyday life and improves problem solving skills.

Not sure about science though, always hated science.

Basic arithmetic and algebra maybe. Beyond that, most people wont ever need to derive the area of a football field or the speed a rocket is heading at tasmania jones. I think you actually have the potential to push kids out of VCE if you make it more restricted and mandated. The current system is an advantage because you can do more or less whatever the hell you like.

Bit of an irony between your top and bottom sentences too :p.

[TrueTears]

Maths should be compulsory, it's used in everyday life and improves problem solving skills.

Not sure about science though, always hated science.

But maths is the language of science?

[lala1911]

I don't think it's a bad thing. We treat VCE students like capable adults and respect their choice to choose what they like but then we backhand them for fluctuations in demand in the subjects we like? Fundamentally, they didn't choose it because they didn't want to do it. You can argue why but thats the short and skinny of it. So it might be that the school didn't instill enough love for math or science or something like that but shock horror, not everyone does or will like math or science. It would be a fairly hefty chunk of kids as well.

Basic arithmetic and algebra maybe. Beyond that, most people wont ever need to derive the area of a football field or the speed a rocket is heading at tasmania jones. I think you actually have the potential to push kids out of VCE if you make it more restricted and mandated. The current system is an advantage because you can do more or less whatever the hell you like.

Bit of an irony between your top and bottom sentences too :p.

True. Yes. I don't think all kids should do methods/specialist type mathematics, it is quite complex. I think the further mathematics standard is appropriate, and foundation maths as an option for VCAL sounds reasonable.

I just hate science.. ;p, (my opinion) although I think science up to year 10 was good. Year 11/12 science is much more difficult than subjects like further mathematics (again, subjective and dependent on the individual, but generally it is more difficult proof: data distributions for grades)

[Russ]

But maths is the language of science?

Nah, that's Latin.

(hurr)

[enwiabe]

I don't think it's a bad thing. We treat VCE students like capable adults and respect their choice to choose what they like but then we backhand them for fluctuations in demand in the subjects we like? Fundamentally, they didn't choose it because they didn't want to do it. You can argue why but thats the short and skinny of it. So it might be that the school didn't instill enough love for math or science or something like that but shock horror, not everyone does or will like math or science. It would be a fairly hefty chunk of kids as well.

Basic arithmetic and algebra maybe. Beyond that, most people wont ever need to derive the area of a football field or the speed a rocket is heading at tasmania jones. I think you actually have the potential to push kids out of VCE if you make it more restricted and mandated. The current system is an advantage because you can do more or less whatever the hell you like.

Bit of an irony between your top and bottom sentences too :p.

What does it tell you when such a huge % of kids stop choosing maths where previously they lapped it up? It tells you that curriculum standards are declining and that students are no longer engaged to the point of wanting to study it at a higher level. You can waive numbers like that off as these students being young adults making choices. However, such a huge decline in fact points to a systemic decrease in the quality of mathematics education. In 2003, 6300 students felt confident enough that they possessed the toolkit to tackle Specialist mathematics. In 2012, just shy of 3900 did. This is not about exercising choice. This is in fact about options being limited by poor quality education.

[Russ]

That's not the only logical conclusion you can draw from declining enrollments. Students might feel that advanced mathematics is no longer necessary for a successful career or university studies and less are opting to take it, in deference to other subjects.