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zsteve

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5325 on: July 04, 2016, 09:10:42 pm »
+3

So liquids and solids don't affect the equilibrium of a system in any way. But could someone give me an idea as to why this is so?
I mean surely, they're chemicals regardless of what states they are in...and presumably affect the system it's in. Why should I consider only the aqueous ones? EDIT: and gaseous ones


Ok, we shall go on a short expedition into lands beyond VCE Chemistry.
Technically, your equilibrium constant is defined in terms of chemical activity, which is a dimensionless quantity (i.e. doesn't have units), denoted a

For fairly dilute solutions, activity = concentration, hence you use concentration terms in the reaction quotient (aka equlibrium expression). However, at extremely high concentrations, activity may be different from concentration. I haven't covered this in detail at uni, but from my vague wanderings in year 12 I seem to recall that, at very high concentrations of say some solute in water, multiple solute particles may clump together and behave like one big particle, affecting the behaviour of the solution.

In general, though, the activity of pure liquid/solid is defined to be 1.

Hope that helps :) And don't worry about it, definitely not examinable. Just nice to know if you like chemistry (which I hope you do!)
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Apink!

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5326 on: July 05, 2016, 12:11:16 pm »
0
Oh I see- Thanks zsteve! That's very interesting
I wish I did UMEP Chem :'(
---


Any tips in drawing equilibrium graphs anyone?

Some papers draw beautifully curved lines, while others just draw straight jagged lines. (does that matter?)
I know that the magnitude of the change has to match that of the coefficient in front of the chemical specie, but that's about all I know. And that adding or removing a specie would equate to a sharp vertical lines as well as doing stuff with pressure. Temp changes would have more of a gradual change (so curved lines)

Let's say that the change to the equilibrium was "more Cl- was added" then on the equilibrium graph, can I make the sudden vertical spike as large as I like? Also when the question says, "equilibrium was re-established at 20 minute mark", does that mean I have to make sure that conc. changes and becomes stagnant exactly at 20 min (and draw a horizontal line after 20 minute to make the point that  conc doesn't change after that and thus reached equilibrium)? Would it be wrong to have the conc. the same from like 18 min mark continuing  to 20 min (cos that would be mean equilibrium "reached"at 18 min)

Sorry for being pedantic. It's all my teacher's fault :P
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 12:13:07 pm by Apink! »
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jyce

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5327 on: July 05, 2016, 03:16:42 pm »
+3
Oh I see- Thanks zsteve! That's very interesting
I wish I did UMEP Chem :'(
---


Any tips in drawing equilibrium graphs anyone?

Some papers draw beautifully curved lines, while others just draw straight jagged lines. (does that matter?)
I know that the magnitude of the change has to match that of the coefficient in front of the chemical specie, but that's about all I know. And that adding or removing a specie would equate to a sharp vertical lines as well as doing stuff with pressure. Temp changes would have more of a gradual change (so curved lines)

Let's say that the change to the equilibrium was "more Cl- was added" then on the equilibrium graph, can I make the sudden vertical spike as large as I like? Also when the question says, "equilibrium was re-established at 20 minute mark", does that mean I have to make sure that conc. changes and becomes stagnant exactly at 20 min (and draw a horizontal line after 20 minute to make the point that  conc doesn't change after that and thus reached equilibrium)? Would it be wrong to have the conc. the same from like 18 min mark continuing  to 20 min (cos that would be mean equilibrium "reached"at 18 min)

Sorry for being pedantic. It's all my teacher's fault :P

Everything you've said sounds spot-on - except that, yes, in your example, you would need to make sure the concentrations reach a constant at 20 minutes, not any earlier. You don't have to draw a line to mark the point of the new equilibrium position, but it's a good idea to provide some clarity to your drawing. And yes, you want smooth curves, not "straight jagged lines".

Here's what VCAA said in the 2014 exam report regarding a question that required you to draw equilibrium graphs:

"These graphs proved challenging for many students. Some student struggled with the starting points of both graphs (based on initial concentrations), the final concentration for each graph (based on equilibrium concentrations), and the point at which the graphs levelled out (i.e. when equilibrium was reached). This latter point was often missed, with students overlooking the fact that all three species would reach their equilibrium concentrations at the same time. The difficulty was further compounded by vertical scale location, where it was required that the graphs levelled off within the correct vertical gradation."

Maybe this will help as well.

But yeah, I think the main points are:
- Smooth curves that plateau at the same time for all species at the time of the new equilibrium position
- Drops/rises in concentration that are in accordance with the stoichiometric ratios of the given equation at hand
- Sudden initial drops/rises in concentration for dilution, pressure changes, etc. but not for temperature changes which result in only gradual changes

My last piece of advice - something which sometimes gets overlooked by students - is ensure that your graphs are in accordance with Le Chatelier's principle (e.g., if the concentration of a species is increased, the concentration of that species might then decrease to oppose the change but the concentration at the new equilibrium position would still be greater than the initial concentration, as the change in concentration is only PARTIALLY opposed).

Hope this helps!

jyce

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5328 on: July 05, 2016, 03:43:01 pm »
+1
Just a quick question:

So liquids and solids don't affect the equilibrium of a system in any way. But could someone give me an idea as to why this is so?
I mean surely, they're chemicals regardless of what states they are in...and presumably affect the system it's in. Why should I consider only the aqueous ones? EDIT: and gaseous ones


Also note that we exclude liquids (e.g., molten ionic compounds, liquid water) and solids from equilibrium constants because their concentrations are effectively constant. Equilibrium constants are supposed to indicate the extent to which a reversible reaction proceeds in the direction it is written; looking at the liquids/solids involved in the reaction will not help you determine the extent of reaction as their concentrations won't have changed (the mass of a solid species would change, but we use concentration in equilibrium constants so..).

And liquids and solids can indeed have effects on an equilibrium system; it's just that they're excluded from the equilibrium constant. For example, adding water to an aqueous equilibrium system most definitely has an effect - the dilution will cause a shift in the direction that produces the greater number of particles, if possible.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 02:31:04 pm by jyce »

Aimee26

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5329 on: July 05, 2016, 08:11:21 pm »
0
HI!
I am wondering if anyone has any tips and tricks to reading NMR graphs and interpreting results!
Biggest issue from unit 3
Thanks heaps :)

Swagadaktal

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5330 on: July 05, 2016, 08:22:28 pm »
+1
HI!
I am wondering if anyone has any tips and tricks to reading NMR graphs and interpreting results!
Biggest issue from unit 3
Thanks heaps :)
Yo fam can you be a bit more specific? What are your issues with them :D ?
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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5331 on: July 05, 2016, 08:53:38 pm »
+1
Check out Thusan's notes @Aimee26 (They're in U3 AOS2)                                                                      Thushan's Lecture Notes (Units 3 and 4)

Elizawei

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5332 on: July 05, 2016, 08:54:29 pm »
+6
HI!
I am wondering if anyone has any tips and tricks to reading NMR graphs and interpreting results!
Biggest issue from unit 3
Thanks heaps :)
Hey Aimee!
Key points to look out for are the:

- Number of peaks (indicating the number of environments)
-High resolution HNMR peak splitting (For me I reckon this is the trickiest bit, as it's the hydrogens on the adjacent Carbon that causes the splitting) (again, splitting gives you heaps of info on the structure and the type of Hydrogen environments)
- Chemical shift values (these give clue to what structures are in the compound, in data book but doesn't always match up as electronegative atoms increases the chemical shift)
-Ratio of hydrogens for each peak gives the ratio of hydrogens found in each environment (not always given)

Oh also theres this app my teacher recommended for us to get if you're interested, it's called Chemisode and the guy who does it also does free unit 3 chem podcasts which you can find in apple podcasts :) Good to listen to if you're on public transport or if you got time :)

If you're not that confident in NMR, I'd suggest you to try doing some practice exam questions on interpreting NMR, nearly every commercial exam paper contains an instrument question regarding some NMR spectra, I can also point you to some VCAA ones too if you want :)

And yeah, like Swag said, if you specify exactly what you need help with we can probably be a bit more specific too :)
Oh yeah guys correct me if I'm wrong :P
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Apink!

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5333 on: July 06, 2016, 06:22:14 am »
0
Thanks jyce :)
Also note that we exclude liquids (e.g., molten ionic compounds, liquid water) and solids from equilibrium constants because their concentrations are effectively constant. Equilibrium constants are supposed to indicate the extent to which a reversible reaction proceeds in the direction it is written; looking at the liquids/solids involved in the reaction will not help you determine the extent of reaction as their concentrations won't have changed (the mass of a solid species would change, but we use concentration in equilibrium constants so..).

And liquids and solids can indeed have have effects on an equilibrium system; it's just that they're excluded from the equilibrium constant. For example, adding water to an aqueous equilibrium system most definitely has an effect - the dilution will cause a shift in the direction that produces the greater number of particles, if possible.
Hey Aimee!
Key points to look out for are the:

- Number of peaks (indicating the number of environments)
-High resolution HNMR peak splitting (For me I reckon this is the trickiest bit, as it's the hydrogens on the adjacent Carbon that causes the splitting) (again, splitting gives you heaps of info on the structure and the type of Hydrogen environments)
- Chemical shift values (these give clue to what structures are in the compound, in data book but doesn't always match up as electronegative atoms increases the chemical shift)
-Ratio of hydrogens for each peak gives the ratio of hydrogens found in each environment (not always given)

Oh also theres this app my teacher recommended for us to get if you're interested, it's called Chemisode and the guy who does it also does free unit 3 chem podcasts which you can find in apple podcasts :) Good to listen to if you're on public transport or if you got time :)

If you're not that confident in NMR, I'd suggest you to try doing some practice exam questions on interpreting NMR, nearly every commercial exam paper contains an instrument question regarding some NMR spectra, I can also point you to some VCAA ones too if you want :)

And yeah, like Swag said, if you specify exactly what you need help with we can probably be a bit more specific too :)
Oh yeah guys correct me if I'm wrong :P

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sweetcheeks

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5334 on: July 06, 2016, 10:23:57 am »
0
Is the purpose of the flame in AAS to atomise the sample not ionise it?

Aimee26

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5335 on: July 06, 2016, 03:07:59 pm »
+1
Hey Aimee!
Key points to look out for are the:

- Number of peaks (indicating the number of environments)
-High resolution HNMR peak splitting (For me I reckon this is the trickiest bit, as it's the hydrogens on the adjacent Carbon that causes the splitting) (again, splitting gives you heaps of info on the structure and the type of Hydrogen environments)
- Chemical shift values (these give clue to what structures are in the compound, in data book but doesn't always match up as electronegative atoms increases the chemical shift)
-Ratio of hydrogens for each peak gives the ratio of hydrogens found in each environment (not always given)

Oh also theres this app my teacher recommended for us to get if you're interested, it's called Chemisode and the guy who does it also does free unit 3 chem podcasts which you can find in apple podcasts :) Good to listen to if you're on public transport or if you got time :)

If you're not that confident in NMR, I'd suggest you to try doing some practice exam questions on interpreting NMR, nearly every commercial exam paper contains an instrument question regarding some NMR spectra, I can also point you to some VCAA ones too if you want :)

And yeah, like Swag said, if you specify exactly what you need help with we can probably be a bit more specific too :)
Oh yeah guys correct me if I'm wrong :P

Thanks heaps Elizawei!
I know my question was quite vague but all I was afer was some simple tips when reading them as I know the specifics, just wanted to know any other ideas around!

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5336 on: July 09, 2016, 05:15:52 pm »
0
what are possible errors and improvements in a typical equilibrium experiment. "Effect of concentration changes on equilibrium yields"

The reaction was
Fe3+   + SCN- (yellow) <------->FeSCN2+  (red)

NerdyPi

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5337 on: July 09, 2016, 09:03:52 pm »
0
This is more for a confirmation, but has crackling and a specific knowledge of the hemoglobin reaction been taken off the study design? Thanks :)

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5338 on: July 10, 2016, 05:21:59 pm »
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Can someone please explain back titration in the best way they possibly can?

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Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #5339 on: July 10, 2016, 05:35:49 pm »
+1
Can someone please explain back titration in the best way they possibly can?

Hey larissaaa! So good that we're seeing new people here on AN! :D
Okay so back titration is basically a titration in which one reactant is added in excess and that excess if then titrated with another reagent. Back titrations are required if the end point in a titration is not sharp and the titre value obtained may have a degree of error associated with it, thus affecting the accuracy of the calculated analyte concentration.

This is the case when a weak acid is titrated against a strong base or a weak base is titrated against a strong acid. Also if the substance is insoluble in water (e.g calcium carbonate) and cannot be made into solution to titrate, excess acid can be added to react with the base and the residue acid titrated against a strong base to calculate the excess acid.

Simply put, back titrations are where you add a reactant (e.g HCl) in excess to the sample (e.g CaCO3), allowing to react, then titrating the excess substance (that's left over from the initial reaction with the sample) with another substance (NaOH). We can then use the titre obtained from the HCl and NaOH reaction to calculate the amount of HCl that was left over after the initial reaction. Since we know how much HCl we added initially, we can now calculate the amount of HCl that reacted with the sample by:



Also this vid is pretty neat in explaining back titrations, go watch it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91n8RUkhKc
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