Oral: "The VCE is not fair"

[Blondie21]

Charmanderp: Speech erased for privacy/protection of originality issues.

[CH3ezEC4KE]

Absolute gold topic, awesome!

[brenden]

I love what you've done (on a personal basis) - "the odds are never in our favour", right?
I'm pretty busy at the moment but I'll do my best to come back here and help you out.

[DJA]

I must admit that I am from 'District One' as you so aptly put it.
I count myself lucky to be part of this^

Yet I share your sentiment and I loved this piece. Good on you!
Real food for thought.
Thank you for sharing

[Robert243]

Fantastic   
I love it .
Just out of curiosity how long is this oral ? Depending on the time you have you could go a bit over the limit . But overall it's great .

[charmanderp]

So meta.

I really like this one, the topic you've chosen is fantastic! I'm not sure that I agree with all of it but your execution and structure are persuasive nonetheless, which is very impressive. The Hunger Games parallel is clever too.

When I have time I'll take a closer look and give you more specific feedback (:

[ninwa]

Mod edit: split off-topic posts so thread can be about feedback on the oral itself. Apologies for my part in bringing it off topic

[vox nihili]

Large quote removed.

I like your idea, and inequality in the education system is certainly a huge issue. The gap between public and private is enormously unfair. Well done also for having the guts to post this up and take the possible flak of your topic and get advice! One of the most important things you can do with a speech is try it out on people, so well done.

I'll give my two bob, and they'll mainly address what I perceive as issues with the speech, but I should say there's a lot great with this speech so don't feel disheartened! I really like your Hunger Games analogy and throughout you clearly show that you know the difference between speaking and writing, which will help you a lot when you get up there. Additionally, I like how you've used humour throughout the speech. A bit of a stab at the VCAA is good, and is great for connecting with your audience.

A few pointers though:

• As an overall point, I think your argument gets a little bit lost. You start off by talking about elite, private schools and the inherent divisions between socioeconomic classes. Then you drift into the unfairness of scaling. Whilst these are fine under the title of your speech, I don't think that they sit very well with the speech you've given, particularly the introduction. It feels like when you talk about scaling, that you've drifted a bit far from the topic. I know I certainly struggled to see its relevance in terms of your speech (I see how it's relevant to your topic, it just doesn't sit with the topic you've introduced to the audience in your introduction). To fix it, either do away with the scaling point all together (and you'll see below that this may be a good idea) or you need to revise your introduction to allude to the fact that it's not just inequalities between schools that you'll be addressing, but that's it's inequalities between subjects. Your introduction should highlight your key points and what you'll be talking about, and to me it seems to be that there is inequality between schools in the VCE, not that the VCE itself is unfair (which isn't a bad thing and would be a better speech in itself in my opinion).
• You have too many rhetorical questions at the start (nitpicking). These are a good device, but you use them too deep into your speech and too often. "Rhetorical question" is also a bit bullshit, you are actually meant to answer them in some form, I don't think you do that entirely.
• You need to provide an argument for why the inequality between public and private is unfair. This is a great opportunity to open up some rhetorical devices and pull on the heart strings. Go all out, get them thinking. Explain why it is such a bloody bad thing that the private schools get it better. My personal favourite angle is that "education is about giving people a fair go, about ensuring equality. So it seems ridiculous to me that in the current system the quality of a child's education is determined by their parents' wallet, not their individual aptitudes". The line is probably a bit cumbersome, but nonetheless, it provides the right idea
• Super nitpicking: Don't use Bosnia as an example. Their education system falls well behind Australia's, and I don't agree entirely with all that you've found about it either. The Bosnian education system is extremely prescriptive and relies very heavily on rote learning, to the detriment of the students. It's also deeply divided, given that there are three education systems running in tandem. One based on the Croatian system, one for Bosnian muslims and one based on the Serbian system. This creates some very noticeable disparities in the system, and is actually quite symptomatic of your point: a socioeconomic and cultural divide in education

I'll leave it there! If you want more advice, I'll happily give it, but it's probably best not to overload you and see how you can shift things around

[T-Infinite]

This is actually really good! I wish I was this creative though, the comparison between VCE and The Hunger Games is awesome

[brightsky]

Overall, a great speech. Just a few humble suggestions:

1. Write and speak in the present tense. Don't use words like 'was' and 'were'.

2. "Even last year, my English teacher could never control the level of incessant noise made by disruptive, futile students." I don't think this will go down well, considering that you will be presenting this speech in front of your English class later this year. The joke you made a few sentences prior to this about the appearances of students from your school was okay, but I don't think something as direct as this will go down well.

3. "Is it fair that students from prestigious schools, who already have an in depth understanding of the Year 12 course, are competing against us?" This is a massive generalization, which is more or less inaccurate. I came from a relatively prestigious school, and I can say without any hesitancy that not all students have an 'in-depth understanding of the Year 12 course' prior to year 12. I don't know how much the English teachers at your school know about private school students, but my suggestion is that you change that statement to something more nuanced.

4. "Instead of understanding or at least having a “feel” for our future, we are hardly even given a “dabble.”" This is a very good point. Bravo. I am a bit skeptical as to how tenable the comparison you drew between the Capitol and the VCAA actually is, though. You can probably make a joke about how the VCAA sparks fear within students, but I don't think the VCAA runs anything close to a totalitarian regime.

5. "Now, what if the contestants in the Hunger Games who were using the more difficult weapons were given extra points or rewards?" This parallel sounds a little forced. I don't really see how 'more difficult weapons' can be compared to 'more difficult subjects'. In fact, if one were to use a more 'difficult' weapon in the Hunger Games, won't that increase one's chances of death? I don't know, but something about the analogy seems a little artificial.

6. "In 2011, a perfect score required a person to have taken either Specialist math or a language which scaled over 50." I think it is better if you used 2013 as an example instead. The cut off for a 99.95 last year was, unless I'm mistaken, the highest it has ever been (~211.8 if I recall correctly).

7. "Because of this senseless marking scheme, students can lose imperative marks from their final ATAR score, deterring them from being able to apply for their desired course." This sentence sounds a little awkward. I'd recommend that you use 'crucial' or something along those lines instead of 'imperative', and 'precluding' instead of 'deterring'. Some great points were made in that paragraph though.

8. I don't really see the relevance of the penultimate paragraph. You spoke about the ills of the VCE system in all of your other body paragraphs, and then you suddenly start talking about alternative educational systems. There needs to be a stronger link between the other paragraphs on the penultimate paragraph.

9. "We need to start viewing students as individuals, rather than numbers and statistics." This is true, but what is the alternative? Is there one? There is simply no way of 'objectively' measuring the ability of every student in a given population except by making use of some sort of ranking system. Moreover, just because the VCE uses numbers and statistics to measure intellectual capacity and what not, that doesn't necessarily mean that the VCAA views students as anything less than humans. Even American Express assigns strings of numbers to each of its customers!

Hope this helps and good luck!

[T-Infinite]

Just wondering, is this actually a legit topic? Is it a current issue in the media or something? My English teacher told us to pick a current topic (past 6 months) and do an oral on that. This topic is actually pretty interesting and I could easily relate to it, but I haven't really heard anything about it in the papers/media... unless I'm falling behind with the issues.

[anna.xo]

Just wondering, is this actually a legit topic? Is it a current issue in the media or something? My English teacher told us to pick a current topic (past 6 months) and do an oral on that. This topic is actually pretty interesting and I could easily relate to it, but I haven't really heard anything about it in the papers/media... unless I'm falling behind with the issues.

From my own understanding, I gathered the user was talking about the private/public school debate (I could be wrong of course). It's not a 'current' issue, so to speak, but it has been a huge issue in the past - definitely a few times in 2013 though.
Our teacher told us it had to be an issue that was being debated from ~September 2013 to end of January 2014.

[vox nihili]

From my own understanding, I gathered the user was talking about the private/public school debate (I could be wrong of course). It's not a 'current' issue, so to speak, but it has been a huge issue in the past - definitely a few times in 2013 though.
Our teacher told us it had to be an issue that was being debated from ~September 2013 to end of January 2014.

I think, reasonably, someone could find a connection in the media. Peter Costello had a dip late last year, saying that education was a "privilege".

[anna.xo]

I think, reasonably, someone could find a connection in the media. Peter Costello had a dip late last year, saying that education was a "privilege".

Yes, I believe you are right. A quick Google found this;
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=public+v+private+schools&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=MH_LUrnHJMyYkgXU8IDgBQ&ved=0CA0Q_AUoAQ&biw=1093&bih=488&dpr=1.25

Enjoy !

[Blondie21]

how long is this oral ? Depending on the time you have you could go a bit over the limit . But overall it's great .

It's a little over the 6 minute mark (approx. 30 seconds) and I was planning on modifying it based on the feedback I received here

• To fix it, either do away with the scaling point all together (and you'll see below that this may be a good idea) or you need to revise your introduction to allude to the fact that it's not just inequalities between schools that you'll be addressing, but that's it's inequalities between subjects.
• You have too many rhetorical questions at the start (nitpicking). These are a good device, but you use them too deep into your speech and too often. "Rhetorical question" is also a bit bullshit, you are actually meant to answer them in some form, I don't think you do that entirely.
• My personal favourite angle is that "education is about giving people a fair go, about ensuring equality. So it seems ridiculous to me that in the current system the quality of a child's education is determined by their parents' wallet, not their individual aptitudes". The line is probably a bit cumbersome, but nonetheless, it provides the right idea
• Super nitpicking: Don't use Bosnia as an example. Their education system falls well behind Australia's, and I don't agree entirely with all that you've found about it either. The Bosnian education system is extremely prescriptive and relies very heavily on rote learning, to the detriment of the students. It's also deeply divided, given that there are three education systems running in tandem. One based on the Croatian system, one for Bosnian muslims and one based on the Serbian system. This creates some very noticeable disparities in the system, and is actually quite symptomatic of your point: a socioeconomic and cultural divide in education

First of all, thanks so much for the advice!

1. I'll erase the scaling part - I was unsure of that part too. However, do you think the "perfect score" section fits with my argument?
2. I'll clear that up
3. Will definitely incorporate that in.. I had a feeling I needed more information there.
4. The reason I included Bosna was based purely on the fact I just came back from a holiday there. All my information was basically hearsay so I agree that it shouldn't be included. Yes I am aware - in my opinion the segregation is ridiculous (even if this is a little off topic :-P)

Overall, a great speech. Just a few humble suggestions:

Again, thanks so much for your feedback :-)

1. I wasn't sure about this, thanks for the clarification
2. Erased!
3. I'll alter it .. Can I say "presumably" a greater knowledge? Or does that reduce the credibility of my speech?
4. That was a hyperbole
5. That's because it was forced!! I'm erasing the scaling section as it isn't consistent with my overall argument
6. Will do
8. This was my rebuttal (is a rebuttal imperative for an English Oral?)
9. I honestly don't have a response for that - should I erase that sentence also?



Anywhooo, thanks for everything and I will alter my oral tomorrow morning!