Budget 2014

[simpak]

I wouldn't call them sep, I'm under the impression fee deregulation will still allow for there to be a massive increase in the fees (potentially) that could fuck you over regardless of whether you are CSP or full fee domestic.  Also they will begin charging interest on both HECS and HELP loans so I don't think they're separate.  Apparently even for students with an existing loan - my friend put 114k on her FEE-HELP for JD and that's going to have interest now so she's not verrrryyy happy.  I don't think anyone should be going nuts in light of the other changes!  They all seem pretty related to me, in terms of how they affect us overall...more debt, more opportunity for debt and taking a much longer time to pay off debt.

It's just interesting for me to be able to put that back on the table potentially...it was well and truly off the table as my widowed mother does not have 120k lying around.

[hobbitle]

I didn't realise you wanted to do Med, simpak.  I know you sat the GAMSAT but thought you'd changed your mind.

[kinslayer]

I wouldn't call them sep, I'm under the impression fee deregulation will still allow for there to be a massive increase in the fees (potentially) that could fuck you over regardless of whether you are CSP or full fee domestic.

I'm just talking about the HELP system, not the fees themselves. I mean that they two are separate in the sense that those on a CSP right now can stay in any CSP course until 2020 without being slugged with a fee increase, but the changes to the HELP system, including the indexation changes and removal on the FEE-HELP limit, will come into effect for all on 2016 regardless of a student's current status.

Have a good read of this document:

http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/helpfulresources/pages/studentoverview_budget2014

In particular:

Current Commonwealth supported students who finish their course and immediately commence in another course as a Commonwealth supported student (either at the undergraduate or postgraduate level), will also be eligible to study under existing arrangements for the duration of their study or until the 31st of December 2020 (whichever comes first).

If you're currently in an undergrad CSP and are offered a postgrad CSP, your fees will remain capped. It's anybody's guess what will happen to fees for non-CSP postgrad.

[Sense]

Does everyone know that Churches aren't taxed? They would be giving over 40 billion dollars back to Australia. But no, Abbot ignores all the free money flow to his buddies over at the church and takes it out of education and scientific research.

[charmanderp]

What makes you say that $22bn on defence could be cut? We're also one of the only countries in the world without a PPL scheme (even though Abbott's one is shit), why shouldn't we spend money on it?

a) I'm not saying that we should cut the entire $22bn dollars, but cutting health and education before reducing (and in fact increasing) your military spending is absurd.

b) Again I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a PPL scheme and I think it's an important thing to have, but the Abbott one like you've said is awful, and disproportionately benefits the people who least need government assistance. When this is happening at the same time as cuts to health and education I have issues with the scheme, how much it costs and whether it's worth, as well as the government's agenda behind it.

[charmanderp]

For anyone interested in the social effects upon education of the changes: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/graduates-could-pay-up-to-120000-in-debt-hecs-architect-warns-20140514-zrctv.html

[M_BONG]

This is beautiful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxAlX6aOy8

[brenden]

This is beautiful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxAlX6aOy8

It really is about time, hey? Loved that speech.

[simpak]

I didn't realise you wanted to do Med, simpak.  I know you sat the GAMSAT but thought you'd changed your mind.

I'm applying because I'm not 100% sure of what I'm doing and I want #noregrets at the end of the year...so not sure I would ever accept but yeah.  Needed to know whether to bother putting in the form for guaranteed entry or not...

[Professor Polonsky]

a) I'm not saying that we should cut the entire $22bn dollars, but cutting health and education before reducing (and in fact increasing) your military spending is absurd.

b) Again I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a PPL scheme and I think it's an important thing to have, but the Abbott one like you've said is awful, and disproportionately benefits the people who least need government assistance. When this is happening at the same time as cuts to health and education I have issues with the scheme, how much it costs and whether it's worth, as well as the government's agenda behind it.

a) I think that would depend on what the current funding levels are. I don't claim to be an expert on defence spending, but I'm not sure that ours is too high at all, especially considering it's mostly spent on salaries (counterbalancing the public service cuts? )

b) Yeah, the scrapping of the Labor funding arrangements with the states is awful. I highly doubt that it will stand, and obviously really hope that it won't.

[JellyDonut]

y'all just jealous of my f-35 fighter jets

[thushan]

Was having an argument with someone in my family (she's abt 60) about the budget and is pretty right wing - needless to say I got shot down This is what she has to say about the budget:

"This budget is absolutely necessary and the low income earners need to have benefits cut. Why is it that in this country a driver, a person who didn't study at school, earns more than a doctor or an engineer? <At Ford a driver earns ~$120,000 per annum> They need to drop labourers' wages - this country pays too much to these labourers. They should pay wages acccording to your level of education. After all, the people who are struggling for money are only doing so because they drink and smoke and pay for hookers, and they cheat the system by earning cash in hand. They should get rid of the dole so these lazy people can go and find work.

Alternatively, the dole people should be kept in one place from 7 am to 5 pm and made to work or study under close watch. They should not be allowed to go out and spend money [on alcohol and cigarettes and hookers]."

Man, I was seething inside but I couldn't say anything coz I kept getting shut down and talked over. Also, I saw many similar attitudes in comments in newspapers as well :/

[JellyDonut]

call her senile (she is) and laugh it off

but for real tho, where can i get that 120k job as a driver. my whole life is a lie

[Reckoner]

Was having an argument with someone in my family (she's abt 60) about the budget and is pretty right wing - needless to say I got shot down This is what she has to say about the budget:

"This budget is absolutely necessary and the low income earners need to have benefits cut. Why is it that in this country a driver, a person who didn't study at school, earns more than a doctor or an engineer? <At Ford a driver earns ~$120,000 per annum> They need to drop labourers' wages - this country pays too much to these labourers. They should pay wages acccording to your level of education. After all, the people who are struggling for money are only doing so because they drink and smoke and pay for hookers, and they cheat the system by earning cash in hand. They should get rid of the dole so these lazy people can go and find work.

Alternatively, the dole people should be kept in one place from 7 am to 5 pm and made to work or study under close watch. They should not be allowed to go out and spend money [on alcohol and cigarettes and hookers]."

Man, I was seething inside but I couldn't say anything coz I kept getting shut down and talked over. Also, I saw many similar attitudes in comments in newspapers as well :/

Yeah, their points aren't too strong imo. Those laborers earning 120k aren't the ones who cutting welfare is going to hurt. The cuts to unemployment benefits will hurt graduates who have the education, but can't find a grad job and are deemed over qualified for entry level positions. Now that HECS-debt accrues real interest, the longer you take to pay it back, the more you pay. Meaning that if you have no money, you just keep getting into a worse and worse situation.

They seem to be thinking dole bludgers and tradies are the same thing.

Instead of raising the pension age, a person's house should be classed as assessable income when considering eligibility for the pension. It should be assumed that you could reverse mortgage, say, 30% of the equity in your home if need be.

Instead of a deficit levy, reduce the tax benefits from salary sacrificing into super. It's primarily high income earners who are able to contribute extra to super anyway.   

The new interest rate of HECS will screw up a lot of people who went back to uni and getting larger HECS debt under the assumption that it would not accrue real interest. Kinda unethical to apply it to existing debt imo.

[Russ]

I might agree with you here Russ if it was an actual necessity that people pay the fee. We're adding the copay which adds about $1.2bn to the budget but spending $22bn on defence, $5.5bn on the PPL and another billion or so dollars on asylum detention. Surely these other things could have been adjusted before we compromised our very robust and enviable universal healthcare scheme? I just don't understand why the first things attacked have been health and education, which should arguably be the most important cornerstones of any society.

Balancing the budget means that you have a finite amount of resources to provide to all the areas according to what you see as important. Saying that we're spending X on area 1 and 10X on area 2 doesn't really invalidate either one as being too little or too much money. Macroeconomists are the ones who know about these things but I don't see it as a necessity to provide 100% of funding to GP consultations, just because it's less money than something else. I also don't think (despite working in the system) that healthcare has any special place as above fiscal concerns. Health is criminally underfunded but that's a separate issue.