Later school starts

[pi]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/schools-wake-up-to-sleepy-students-and-consider-later-teaching-hours/story-fni0fit3-1227028587105?nk=545d4cec255bf1d001ade8d04187411d

NEWS
Schools wake up to sleepy students and consider later teaching hours
WES HOSKING EDUCATION REPORTER HERALD SUN AUGUST 19, 2014 6:10PM SHARE
   
UPDATE: EDUCATION Minister Martin Dixon has backed more flexible starting times for government students if schools want it.

The Herald Sun today revealed the selective-entry Melbourne High School was considering a 9.30am start while Templestowe College will operate three schedules from next year including a 10.30am to 5.15pm school day.

Concern that adolescents aren’t getting enough sleep is among considerations.

Mr Dixon praised schools for showing innovation, but stressed parents and teachers needed to be on board.

“It’s very important obviously that it’s being done for the right reasons,’’ he said.

“But it’s certainly worth trying. It’s a great idea for schools to try new things that are going to improve student learning.

“The world of work has changed considerably - people work all sorts of odd hours.

“People have late shifts and people have early shifts and I think if a school reflects that then it’s a good preparation for the work world which has changed considerably.”

Melbourne High School principal Jeremy Ludowyke said delaying the school’s starting time could deliver real benefits.

Research shows adolescents typically need 10 hours of sleep .

The school’s students have suggested a 9.30am start rather than the present 8.50am.

“There is a good research base to say we probably ask students to start their working day a little earlier than they should,’’ Mr Ludowyke said.

“We want to just assess the educational value of that proposition.

“It’s one we have to be prepared to look at quite reasonably and objectively.”

The flow-on effect of a later start, that could result in some students not getting home until 6.30pm, would be among factors the school would consider.

Templestowe College has already embraced a change.

From next year, its students will be able to opt for one of three schedules: the existing 8.50am-3.30pm, 10.30am-5.15pm, or 7.15am-1.15pm.

Principal Peter Hutton said most students were expected to stick with the existing times, but the later start would help those who needed more sleep.

“For some kids, that late start will be a godsend,’’ he said.

Karen Davis, mum of Templestowe year 11 student Melissa, said the later start would be “fabulous”.

“Teenagers don’t operate too well before 10 o’clock,’’ she said.

“It’s hard getting them to bed and hard getting them up.”

Victorian Association of State Secondary Principals president Frank Sal said the traditional 9am-3pm school day was eroding as schools became more autonomous.

Mr Dixon said schools were empowered to differ their hours provided students received the mandatory 25 hours of minimum instruction a week.

“Especially with secondary students there’s quite a body of thought that says that students operate better later in the day,’’ he said.

“That’s why this trial is worthwhile looking at very, very closely.

“If we see an appreciable difference in the students, in their attention to their work, their engagement with their work and their results then it’s something that is worthwhile other schools considering.”
Melbourne High is also examining the idea of lectures of up to 300 year 12 students in selected subjects such as English, after research showed students could suffer culture shock when they moved on to tertiary study.

Providing courses online has been flagged to further smooth the transition to tertiary study.

The school will consult before making any recommendations.

[email protected]

Thoughts?

[dyskontent]

Honestly, I don't think it's up to the school to cater to its student's bad habits. Once you leave school and go into the workforce, you're generally not going to be getting the luxury of starting work at 10:30 and it should be up to the student (especially by Year 11/12) to be able to balance school, extra curriculars and sleep. Shifting the school hours might make a difference in the short run until students just start staying up later anyway, effectively nullifying the whole idea.

That being said, if the school, teachers, and students are willing to do it then there's nothing really bad about the idea

[LiquidPaperz]

I reckon the 7.15am-1.15pm option is great. Im more of a morning person and having school done by 1:15 would be awesome, can fit in a workout and school studies. Right now i get home about 3:50, relax till 4:30 eating and facebook etc, then work from 4:30-10:30 with short breaks (like now lol) and then workout from 10:50-12:10 and get to sleep by 12:30 and wake up normally around 7:10.

I really find 7 and a half hours enough (not what im getting) but usually when i do i feel really energized. On the other hand the 10:30 start is not something that should happen, if school finishes at 5:15, most people would get home 5:40 on average and start work around 6. You really have no time to catch up with friends and study!

[IndefatigableLover]

I guess it's kind of cool that they're suggesting this though if implemented, the first few years will be pretty rough trying to get organised and all (especially with outside of school hour commitment if it's late at night) plus not all schools would be undergoing this at the same time. For teachers it'll be tough on their families since they'll be going later than normal too so there's that factor. It does help with traffic congestion as well (like not during peak hour times) however I feel that school's shouldn't be accommodating for the habits of teens simply because we are all perceived to stay up late to finish off homework... you don't get that treatment in reality (rock up to your job etc.) and it teaches you to be organised and all.
It'll also have ramifications on part-time jobs as well since most shops tend to close around about 6pm-9pm on weekdays which effectively means less hours for us as secondary school students but could lead to other problems like loss of jobs due to lack of time commitment.

On the note of lectures for subjects like English with 300+ students, I personally don't think it'll work out well (well it could for MHS but for other schools the lectures wouldn't work out so well imo).

[pi]

Im more of a morning person

Yeah you and..?

[Aaron]

I don't like this idea at all.

I don't think it's setting students up for reality. What message does it give to students who have a choice of when they start. You'll be lucky to get a job in the real world which allows a choice of when you start and when you finish (unless you manage to win Tattslotto or become an extremely successful entrepreneur).

I can however see why school students would be excited by a later start time. Who doesn't love a sleep in?

Overall I think it's a bad idea. I think if they're going to do it, they should at least make it consistent across the board and not have choices of start/end times.

[keltingmeith]

On the note of lectures for subjects like English with 300+ students, I personally don't think it'll work out well (well it could for MHS but for other schools the lectures wouldn't work out so well imo).

It works for universities - ever sat in on one of the geoscience lectures at Monash, before? I know some JMSS kids do.

Personally, I reckon having some lecture-formatted classes for students could work very well if implemented properly. Maybe if they started it at say, year 10, so that they don't get the scare right on year 12. During year 12, I went to quite a few lecture-type talks, and while I don't feel like I learned much at first, the more I went to the easier it got. By the time I was in uni, the lecture-format wasn't an issue at all.

Changing starting times is a bad idea - no matter where kids go after high school, they won't have the luxury of choosing the times they go into work/uni/TAFE/whatever. (welp, unless maybe they do common degree #32 with super flexible times, but that's unlikely to even exist, methinks...) Let them learn at school that they need to have a balance, when the worst that could happen is they get a not-nice mark on their report.

[Phy124]

If I was still in school and it started an hour later I would just end up going to bed an hour later...

[brenden]

I think it's a brilliant idea, something I've been "for" since I was starting to think about the education system in broader terms.
I think the idea that "it doesn't prepare students for later life so it shouldn't be done" is pretty silly. May as well renovate the entire education system if your sole evaluative tool is "will it prepare people or not?"

Having a choice of things is also pretty awesome, intuitively at least, although it does seem really strange/difficult to integrate into my high-school schema lol.

[thushan]

Personally I think 7:30 am to 1:30 pm is a better idea.

[IndefatigableLover]

It works for universities - ever sat in on one of the geoscience lectures at Monash, before? I know some JMSS kids do.

Personally, I reckon having some lecture-formatted classes for students could work very well if implemented properly. Maybe if they started it at say, year 10, so that they don't get the scare right on year 12. During year 12, I went to quite a few lecture-type talks, and while I don't feel like I learned much at first, the more I went to the easier it got. By the time I was in uni, the lecture-format wasn't an issue at all.

Well it works for universities due to the number of students and the freedom which is associated with it (unlike the stricter guidelines in high school) however I was more leaning to the fact that the overall environment created for students to simulate lecture-formatted classes wouldn't work out rather than the actual idea (I'm okay with the idea but recreating it to the point which it is believable is the problem).

If I was still in school and it started an hour later I would just end up going to bed an hour later...

+1
Adding onto that, don't forget that high school isn't centred on just VCE students but also includes lower years like Year 7 which the changes may not work in their favour..

[clıppy]

Personally I think 7:30 am to 1:30 pm is a better idea.

Agreed.
Honestly, it seems like it sucks initially but just like anything else you have to become accustomed to it. After that it would be a pretty good deal. You'd get the whole afternoon and in the case of winter, even a few more hours of sunlight on top of it.

But then,

If I was still in school and it started an hour later I would just end up going to bed an hour later...

The inverse is also true.
If you're getting up at let's say, 6:30am and want to get the "recommended" 8 hours, you'd end up going to bed at 10:30pm the night before. Guaranteed many kids aren't pining to go to bed that early. So then you end up with kids getting about 6-7 hours on average a night.
Or maybe I'm totally wrong and kids are already getting only 6-7 hours on average and this entire system would work in giving kids more time in their afternoons.

[anna.xo]

I back this idea. How many people are actually awake and ready to focus in morning class anyway ? And by morning class I mean 20 past 8 
I think the issue of teenagers not getting enough sleep is a very real thing and seriously, it can totally have huge ramifications on a person later at night. It's not the teen's fault that they stay up late..it's a biological change. What time they do/do not go to bed has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Providing they still provide lunch breaks, I think this really could work well and let's face it: everyone needs the extra advantage, whether that be extra sleep or whatnot.

Fully supported.

[Sense]

I've always wanted 7 to 1, 9-3 or anything later pretty much takes up the whole day....

[aejays]

This sounds like a great idea actually, especially for those of us that take like an hour to get to school.

I think the issue of teenagers not getting enough sleep is a very real thing and seriously, it can totally have huge ramifications on a person later at night. It's not the teen's fault that they stay up late..it's a biological change. What time they do/do not go to bed has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I back this up (psych 3/4 is proof). I think it's fair to say almost every teenager is sleep deprived and there isn't a single person I've seen not tired during VCE years.