Are the courses at latrobe/rmit easier?

[Inside Out]

I am finding melb uni quite difficult so i was browsing through google and found that the atar requirement of civil engineering is 61.75 and 60 for electronic engineering at latrobe.  if i'm struggling how the hell do people who get 60 even live a day in their engiineering (or law) course at latrobe/rmit/swinburne?
Do those unis make it easier for them, or do most people end up dropping out?

[Aaron]

No they are not 'easier'.

Alot of courses are accredited by professional organisations and have to teach certain content and address key points in order to have that accreditation. So when you take this into account, a degree at La Trobe is quite similar to a Unimelb degree (in terms of the content aspect), the research and teaching (among other factors) is what makes it different.

[spectroscopy]

I am finding melb uni quite difficult so i was browsing through google and found that the atar requirement of civil engineering is 61.75 and 60 for electronic engineering at latrobe.  if i'm struggling how the hell do people who get 60 even live a day in their engiineering (or law) course at latrobe/rmit/swinburne?
Do those unis make it easier for them, or do most people end up dropping out?

for things like engineering especially, universities NEED to teach the same shit as the other unis to get accredited, as Aaron said. That being said, latrobe/rmit/swinburne engineering would be of a similiar difficulty as melbourne uni because you have to learn the same things. and engineers in my family all say that the uni for engineering really doesnt matter as long as you get good grades(of course different unis have different qualities and level of recruitment and careers services). so basically you are learning similiar shit as a person at la trobe or something. im sure there would be more people at those unis who just get into engineering and things and just pass the uni subjects, or fail them and drop out, but every once in a while there will be a few kids for whom vce just didnt go their way and they smash their uni course LOL

[Inside Out]

No they are not 'easier'.

Alot of courses are accredited by professional organisations and have to teach certain content and address key points in order to have that accreditation. So when you take this into account, a degree at La Trobe is quite similar to a Unimelb degree (in terms of the content aspect), the research and teaching (among other factors) is what makes it different.

I'm not trying to discredit other unis or anything i am just genuinely wondering how people who get low ATARS cope, since the courses are the same, but the entry requirements are lower. That's all.

[brenden]

I'm not trying to discredit other unis or anything i am just genuinely wondering how people who get low ATARS cope, since the courses are the same, but the entry requirements are lower. That's all.

ATARs aren't strictly indicative of academic ability. Perhaps some of the people at La Trobe are simply more suited to academics than some VCE high achievers.

[keltingmeith]

I'm not trying to discredit other unis or anything i am just genuinely wondering how people who get low ATARS cope, since the courses are the same, but the entry requirements are lower. That's all.

You may or may not have realised by now that grades in uni =/= grades in high school. I even have some of my own anecdotes:

1. I consistently get high grades in uni maths than quite a few of my friends who did better than me in VCE.
2. DESPITE my rather average chemistry score (33), I have managed to do extremely well in the two units of advanced chemistry at Monash, despite the fact that only people who got over 37 should even be doing the units to begin with. And I can promise you, these aren't units that see a lot of people doing as well as I did. (please don't take this to be as boasting as it sounds right now... .__.)

Not to say that doing well in high school means you'll do bad at uni or even vice versa - however, using myself as an example, it is DEFINITELY possible to do bad/mediocre in high school and do brilliantly at uni. It's just because uni is that much different to high school, as Ned said.

[Tyleralp1]

Just my two cents here...

I was always under the impression that ATAR requirements are also a slight indication of supply and demand. Say for instance Biomed at Melbourne, there may be over a thousand people wanting to do it, although only have 300 places to offer, therefore resulting in the higher ATAR requirement for guaranteed entry. Therefore to say an ATAR requirement of around 60, I think, would simply imply that there is a lesser demand for places there, than at Melbourne or Monash which require those higher ATAR's.

It's like the old case of Biomed vs Science. People who get extremely high ATAR's are sometimes assumed to be doing Biomed, due to having the high ATAR so "why waste it" and people generally assume they do a course with a higher entry requirement. It's also similar to the assumption that the Biomed course is better/more prestigious than the Science course just because of it's higher entry requirement, when in reality they offer much the same content and majors.

As aforementioned, the coursework itself would have to be more of less the same due to national/global recognition and accreditation.

It's factors which may include popularity, supply and demand, prestige, resources, etc that may also influence ATAR requirements.

[Inside Out]

ATARs aren't strictly indicative of academic ability. Perhaps some of the people at La Trobe are simply more suited to academics than some VCE high achievers.

if it was like a 75 with non scaled subs yea i would agree.. but come on 60s? I don't believe someone who got 60 in high school can do brilliantly  (when say brilliantly i mean enough to pass a typical engineering or law exam) in uni. I know that sounds harsh but i am reflecting on my experience with VCE where i put zero effort, i wouldn't call myself smart, and was on antidepressants the whole year...yet i managed a 90+ (my chem was lower than yours ^).I don't get why people are suddenly getting defensive over this.

[keltingmeith]

if it was like a 75 with non scaled subs yea i would agree.. but come on 60s? I don't believe someone who got 60 in high school can do brilliantly  (when say brilliantly i mean enough to pass a typical engineering or law exam) in uni. I know that sounds harsh but i am reflecting on my experience with VCE where i put zero effort, i wouldn't call myself smart, and was on antidepressants the whole year...yet i managed a 90+ (my chem was lower than yours ^).I don't get why people are suddenly getting defensive over this.

Man, I only mentioned chem because it was a key example given I was referencing uni chem.

People are getting defensive because you've basically said "if you get a low ATAR, you must be stupid". I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but (to me, at least) that's the initial interpretation.

There are so many different factors around the two systems and scoring it's not even funny.

[Inside Out]

[Paulrus]

I do not think that I am disrespecting them.

boy i hope i'm not around when you DO mean to disrespect anyone

[Special At Specialist]

I think that the lower unis (RMIT, La Trobe, Swinburne, etc.) make it significantly easier to get good marks than at Melbourne Uni. Most of the students in the RMIT maths or stats major that I've talked to got ATAR's between 80 and 95 and our average uni marks are between 75% and 90%. I don't think it's because of us being more suited to academics.

Firstly, our exams are only worth 60% at most, often less (whereas Melbourne Uni makes their exams worth around 80%). The coursework usually consists of a bunch of weekly "tests" in which we're allowed to talk to each other and collaborate answers.
The exam itself is set out exactly the same way as the practice exams we are given, so all you have to do is memorise the types of questions in the practice exam and you'll be set for the real thing.
And our bludge subjects are extremely bludge. For example, I had one subject which had no exam; just a bunch of assignments. I did most of my assignments 2 hours before they were due and I got 90% in that subject. This would never happen at Melbourne Uni.
Also, the people who mark the exams are extremely generous and will often give half marks for a question that you get completely wrong.

The content may be the same, but the marking scheme and the coursework is set out to make it very easy to get HD's. I have no doubt that if my uni transfer application is successful, I will find it much more difficult to maintain these sorts of marks at Melbourne Uni.

[Aaron]

i did mean it that way actually. A low 60 is for my part of a definition, not very intellectually capable. 

Then I think you need to finetune your definition. As someone who received a 65 ATAR, I have a 78.81 WAM over the two years i've completed so far, and received many >80's (most recently a third year computer science subject).

This wasn't to brag about my personal achievements, but it was to illustrate first hand how incorrect your statement is and to do so I needed to include some relevant facts about my personal experience so far at university.

Obviously the situation differs for each individual, and I think there are many contributors to success at university (measured by results) such as determination and taking a genuine interest into the degree you're doing (just to name two).

ATAR does not equal intellectual ability, it is simply a tertiary admissions rank. That's all it will ever be.

[Pup]

I think that the lower unis (RMIT, La Trobe, Swinburne, etc.) make it significantly easier to get good marks than at Melbourne Uni. Most of the students in the RMIT maths or stats major that I've talked to got ATAR's between 80 and 95 and our average uni marks are between 75% and 90%. I don't think it's because of us being more suited to academics.

Firstly, our exams are only worth 60% at most, often less (whereas Melbourne Uni makes their exams worth around 80%). The coursework usually consists of a bunch of weekly "tests" in which we're allowed to talk to each other and collaborate answers.
The exam itself is set out exactly the same way as the practice exams we are given, so all you have to do is memorise the types of questions in the practice exam and you'll be set for the real thing.
And our bludge subjects are extremely bludge. For example, I had one subject which had no exam; just a bunch of assignments. I did most of my assignments 2 hours before they were due and I got 90% in that subject. This would never happen at Melbourne Uni. The content may be the same, but the marking scheme and the coursework is set out to make it very easy to get HD's. I have no doubt that if my uni transfer application is successful, I will find it much more difficult to maintain these sorts of marks at Melbourne Uni.

From what you're saying, would it be advantageous to go to a lower ranked university as RMIT, Latrobe, deakin, victoria uni etc, to easily maintain a high GPA, for applying into a postgraduate course such as medicine, dentistry  in a G8 university such as Melbourne and Monash. I don't know if the university you went gets taken into account for postgrad applications. I'm a biomed student at melbourne and have always wondered if I was better off doing biomedical science at RMIT or  Vic uni, since you said, has easier assessment and easily to get higher score .

[Rohmer]

I am finding melb uni quite difficult so i was browsing through google and found that the atar requirement of civil engineering is 61.75 and 60 for electronic engineering at latrobe.  if i'm struggling how the hell do people who get 60 even live a day in their engiineering (or law) course at latrobe/rmit/swinburne?
Do those unis make it easier for them, or do most people end up dropping out?

Firstly, I think the ATAR is more a reflection of hard work/effort than intelligence (capacity for learning). Remember, most subjects involve ROTE learning, sometimes to a large extent. Unless you have 1) an excellent memory or 2) can pick up things very quickly or 3) avoid ROTE learning subjects as much as possible, there's going to be quite a lot of hard work required in getting a decent score. And many students just aren't very motivated during VCE. And, most of them aren't at schools that will push them a bit more (typically, private schools). Therefore, they end up with rather ordinary ATAR's.

Once you get to uni though, it's quite different. Many different subjects, no school environment, a different style of learning is required. Everyone's at uni, and its now a different game; some of those mid-level ATAR students will do ok.

But are the courses easier? It's pretty hard to know unless you've done the same course at different institutions. In some cases the answer is almost certainly 'yes' (but only to an extent) due to universities marking on a curve. Many courses won't greatly adjust things on a curve though. Further, a lot are accredited (accounting, law, medicine), which ensures consistency between the degrees. It's quite difficult to assess overall, but I would say generally, although there may be some difference in some courses...it's not a lot. I've spoken to people who thought, after transferring to a 'GO8' uni from non-GO8, that the latter was noticeably easy, but you'd sort of expect that where you're marking on a curve with a noticeable gap in ATAR requirements. Anecdotally, most transfer students seemed to think there was little difference between degrees, other than in learning styles.