Why do you think so many people are bad at maths?

[zzdfa]

what's the point of building and funding more universities when there are already too many graduates? (i am basing this on your statement that there is massive unemployment)

dunno why you keep bringing 'opportunities' into this.
TT merely stated that the standard of education here is way lower than in China.

sure, kids have an easier time getting into uni/job here than in china butthat's because there is less competition, not because australia's education system is any better.

[xXNovaxX]

Wow, lol. Everyone has got really good points, LOL, although some are slightly off topic it's mch appreciated. I think it also as some1 else previously said comes down to the discipline, and comeptitivness. Using Australia as an EXAMPLE because i live here one would be daft to not see that people/students here are not as competitive in their subejcts as lets sya in China, India etc etc.

Forgetting about Uni funding, graduates, etc, in China parents are a lot more strict with higher expectations of their children to get into a Uni, to be top of the class, and to get low marks, fails etc i think it's seen as "shameful" or "bad". Whereas here no one cares (a bit of a generalsiation, but the majority of people are happy with C's and D's). In my school, and others surely, i find it surprising when i hear people say "yes!! I passed" instead of "oh, dam i only got a D or a C, i need to improve and get B's and A's". My point being people are HAPPY just to pass, nobody excells themselves to improve. That is the bar is set so low. Look at Japan for example, people attend "cram school" over the weekend, to get extra work, practise and revision. This idea is non existent in Australia (forget tutoring). The Japan example shows how so many people there are intent on doing well.

And please don't get me wrong with my examples, many of them are generalisations, and do to some extent represent fact. Also somebody said sometihng about going to TAFE or sometihng, i think this is also a factor, so many people don't care how they go because they know "oh, ill just go to TAFE" But yeah, keep the comments coming.

[ninwa]

If China nurtures education so much, why don't they build and fund more Universities?
And to what TT said about opportunities: isn't that the whole point of getting an education? The opportunity to proceed on to excel with further learning, to join the skilled workforce?

Stop being defensive and re-read the argument. TT was not arguing that China's education system was any better than Australia's, merely that it was a lot more academically rigorous.

[Mao]

What does his mother have to do with it anyway, once he's a citizen hes an Australian just like the rest of us.

Interesting comment here, if an immigrant with Australian Citizenship committed an act of mass murder, would you still consider this person one of us?

[xXNovaxX]

What does his mother have to do with it anyway, once he's a citizen hes an Australian just like the rest of us.

Interesting comment here, if an immigrant with Australian Citizenship committed an act of mass murder, would you still consider this person one of us?

good point.

[EvangelionZeta]

I never said Terry Tao was a genius because of his parents, I just said his background obviously helped him become one.

Not particularly relevant to anything, but genius typically connotates natural talent.  Hence, nobody apart from Terrence Tao himself "made" him into a genius.

My only comment on the international education debate thing is that we should all do IB!!!!!!!!!!!!1111+shift.

[AppleXY]

I never said Terry Tao was a genius because of his parents, I just said his background obviously helped him become one.

Not particularly relevant to anything, but genius typically connotates natural talent.  Hence, nobody apart from Terrence Tao himself "made" him into a genius.

My only comment on the international education debate thing is that we should all do IB!!!!!!!!!!!!1111+shift.

Investment Banking? AWESOMEEEE LETS DO IT

btw isn't the math education in the US worse than in Australia :S

[xXNovaxX]

 I have also heard stuff about how the education system in the US, not just maths is worse :idiot2:. There was this whole controversy when george bush i think it was brought in rote learning into schools, instead of stuidents UNDERSTANDING what they were learning, they were merely cramming it, whereas here it never occured, but don't take my word, my facts are a bit hazy. LOL, and u also have the whole joke thing where american citizens weren;t able to point Iraq in the map  :2funny: haha, so i think there geography skills are also put into question lollllll

[/0]

At least less Australians suicide due to academic pressure (and have childhoods).

[xXNovaxX]

At least less Australians suicide due to academic pressure (and have childhoods).

ur correct, but then again, in australia suicide because of depression, drugs etc, is a lot mroe common then in china, japan and otehr countries- it goes both ways i guess.

[Fyrefly]

This thread has taken a very strange and off-topic turn...

Maths => Chinese people => Investment banking => Australians suiciding.

[xXNovaxX]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. hope this trhead doesn't get closed . Lets swap topics, who will get the highest ENTER . thats also a good talking point . jokes jokes.

[ninwa]

This thread has taken a very strange and off-topic turn...

Maths => Chinese people => Investment banking => Australians suiciding.

LOL, maybe this belongs in General Discussion ...

[NE2000]

So do you reckon skills/higher ability in mathematics are inborn (i.e. genetics); or acquired through experience and certain types of conditioning (i.e. affected by pressure from parents, exposure to maths problems early)? Or the combination of both? Also known as the debate of nature Vs. nurture.

In a language more suitable for this topic:
development of skills = biological factors + environmental stimulation?

I think for something like academic subjects like these, it's probably more nurture than nature. That said sometimes, parents putting pressure on people to perform can have the opposite effect to what is intended. This is because the possibility of failure could easily reduce the self-efficacy of a person, leading to reduced performance in exams and the ilk. Or to put it more simply, students may lose confidence in their own ability to do maths (or any other subject for that matter).

It may also be the possibility that this Asian=smart stereotype could be exaggerated. Often, we tend to notice the most poignant examples, in this case, Asians with ENTERs (or ATARs) of >99. By doing this, we forget about the possibly larger number of Asians with very low ENTER scores, a bias known as availability bias.

I agree the Asian = smart stereotype may ignore the other end of the scale. But I think the idea is more related to the idea that at the top end of the scale you would find a greater percentage of Asians than you would at the bottom end of the scale. Before I start anything, I'm not trying to create any sort of argument, but just clarifying what I perceive the Asian stereotype to be borne out of. What creates this? I think the 99+ ATARs may have something to do with it...but I think this is built by schools like James Ruse Agricultural High School, with its school cohort something like 90% Asian, with a median ATAR of 99.50 or something like that.

In the other topics this thread has evolved into. I believe academic ability in subjects like mathematics is for most of us more about nurture than nature. It is my belief that if you begin teaching any ordinary child in a pressureless but academically stimulating and supportive environment mathematics from the age of three and rather than repetition of similar concepts you go from basic concepts to application based maths before moving onto something more difficult, that child would be able to develop into someone of strong mathematical ability regardless of their genetic makeup. Of course no such experiment has been performed, so it is merely a conviction at this stage. However, this is not to become a Terence Tao like genius. This is not to be capable of being a professor at UCLA at age 25. This is to be strong at mathematics, let's say to be able to complete specialist maths and achieve a 45+ score. I honestly believe that given nurture from a young age anyone can achieve that and what is often said to be a natural gift (implying some sort of genetic influence) may in fact simply be development of talent at a younger age. To be a Terence Tao like genius, I think you need something to click and that may indeed be genetic.

[Fyrefly]

You know what? I miss The Random Thread... I have difficulty channeling my randomness these days...

And I wouldn't bother Nina... give it another couple of days... someone will say something particularly racist, everyone will have a go at them, they'll defend themselves, somehow economics will be brought up, this thread will explode, then it will be locked.

I think the 99+ ATARs may have something to do with it...

Lol... you said ATAR...