Correlation between VCE results and intelligence

[ninwa]

Somewhat related: I find it really annoying when people say 'I could have done really well if I had tried'.

Is this because they are actually stupid or are they just lazy?

Because they have an ego the size of Mount Rushmore but nowhere near the brains to match it?

[NE2000]

How about when you do well, but you worked hard for it and are happy with doing well, and someone else does well too but tries to achieve superiority with the claim that they "literally, did not study for it, basically just rocked up"...I don't know about you guys...but I find it annoying because I believe that unless you are an absolute genius (in which case I wouldn't find it annoying) or unless you are an extension/olympyiad kid in which case you studied hard for that and probably understand the basics better than most, you do have to study to do well.

[wombifat]

^^ I don't know about VCAA exams, but I've done well in plenty of things without trying at all. I don't understand it myself but sometimes it's just the case. Bludging isn't a good habit to get into though.

[NE2000]

^^ Oh well, I wasn't taking a dig at people that may actually do well without trying sometimes, it was more directed at people who appear to have done the work (identified based on contradictions in earlier observations and later statements) but afterwards tell everyone they didn't try

[zzdfa]

How about when you do well, but you worked hard for it and are happy with doing well, and someone else does well too but tries to achieve superiority with the claim that they "literally, did not study for it, basically just rocked up"...I don't know about you guys...but I find it annoying because I believe that unless you are an absolute genius (in which case I wouldn't find it annoying) or unless you are an extension/olympyiad kid in which case you studied hard for that and probably understand the basics better than most, you do have to study to do well.

how do you determine if they are an 'absolute genius' or not (and hence decide whether you get annoyed or not)?

but yea overall I agree it's annoying when people try to feel superior like that (genius or not).

[NE2000]

How about when you do well, but you worked hard for it and are happy with doing well, and someone else does well too but tries to achieve superiority with the claim that they "literally, did not study for it, basically just rocked up"...I don't know about you guys...but I find it annoying because I believe that unless you are an absolute genius (in which case I wouldn't find it annoying) or unless you are an extension/olympyiad kid in which case you studied hard for that and probably understand the basics better than most, you do have to study to do well.

how do you determine if they are an 'absolute genius' or not (and hence decide whether you get annoyed or not)?

but yea overall I agree it's annoying when people try to feel superior like that (genius or not).

lol it was more hypothetical, there really is only one kid that I personally know who owns basically every test and exam who I would probably not get annoyed with if they make the claim every now and again that they winged a test, or if a guy like Terence Tao would've just rocked up to some maths exam and owned it I obviously wouldn't find it annoying, more in awe actually...

[Gloamglozer]

^^ Oh well, I wasn't taking a dig at people that may actually do well without trying sometimes, it was more directed at people who appear to have done the work (identified based on contradictions in earlier observations and later statements) but afterwards tell everyone they didn't try

I've got a couple of people like that in my year level and yes, I agree with you.  The worst bit is when they ask you how well you went and after you tell them, you find out that they did better than you.  Then they pull out the, "Yeah, but I didn't do any work".

[wombifat]

The probably is, but a lot of the most intelligent people are the people who bomb out.

How do you know that?

only anecdotal evidence, I have not done a study on people with high IQs and their liklihood to bomb out relative to people with average IQs. However, it is a widely acknowledged fact that intelligent people are often the most messed up. And also I just find that a lot of them don't really apply themselves in school. If you were to go through my highly intelligent friends, most of them aren't performing that well in school, or didn't perform that when they went to school. However, that's to do with the people I know, and the people I find interesting to talk to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_bias

Since I doubt there are any scientific studies into this, I don't know what sort of evidence you could expect other than anecdotal. But if you like, I'll list reasons why a lot of really intelligent people tend to "bomb out"

1. Earlier years are incredibly easy to the point of being mind-numbingly boring and they have lost interest in school.
2. They are so used to doing nothing and getting good marks that they just aren't used to having to study or do any sort of work.
3. It's widely acknowledged that there is a fine line between genius and insanity, and if you look back at  the greatest minds in history, a large proportion of them were messed up in some way.


And I didn't even say it was most of them, I just said a lot. And i can prove that there are a lot because I know a lot.

[EvangelionZeta]

1. Intelligent people often come from intelligent parents, who will stress to their children the importance of schooling.
2. Schools often have special programs for "smart" kids to challenge them.
3. Similarly, if the school doesn't present such an opportunity, there are scholarships, places like Melbourne High/MacRob etc. which foster highly intellectual students.
4. Many smart kids have massive egos that come with their intelligence, and in the event that there is another smart kid in the class, they will strive to compete (and beat) them, hence more application in schoolwork.
5. Many of the best performers at school are the ones with some sort of social disability - hence, the "weirder" they are the more likely they will apply themselves (as often they don't have anything else to achieve in).

I'm not saying this applies to every intelligent person, but I am saying it does to a lot.  I can prove it because I'm Asian, know a lot of smart Asian kids (and by that I mean I have almost 1000 Facebook friends!!!!!1+shift) and go to a school that is supposed to represent a high level of intellegence within Victoria (median ENTER score of 90).

[kat148]

(median study score of 90).

lol did you mean ENTER score?

[EvangelionZeta]

My bad.  Shows how ENTER doesn't correlate to being able to type properly.  :p

[wombifat]

1. Intelligent people often come from intelligent parents, who will stress to their children the importance of schooling.
2. Schools often have special programs for "smart" kids to challenge them.
3. Similarly, if the school doesn't present such an opportunity, there are scholarships, places like Melbourne High/MacRob etc. which foster highly intellectual students.
4. Many smart kids have massive egos that come with their intelligence, and in the event that there is another smart kid in the class, they will strive to compete (and beat) them, hence more application in schoolwork.
5. Many of the best performers at school are the ones with some sort of social disability - hence, the "weirder" they are the more likely they will apply themselves (as often they don't have anything else to achieve in).

I'm not saying this applies to every intelligent person, but I am saying it does to a lot.  I can prove it because I'm Asian, know a lot of smart Asian kids (and by that I mean I have almost 1000 Facebook friends!!!!!1+shift) and go to a school that is supposed to represent a high level of intellegence within Victoria (median ENTER score of 90).

1,2, and 3 I took into account. I don't agree with 4. I think if the student has that big an ego they'll think that they can ace year 12 without doing anything. I didn't mean "weird" or "socially disabled", I meant messed up in the head...as in depressed\crazy. I wouldn't say that being "weird" makes you "messed up.

[sdhains]

4. Many smart kids have massive egos that come with their intelligence, and in the event that there is another smart kid in the class, they will strive to compete (and beat) them, hence more application in schoolwork.

I would argue that the most intelligent people in the world generally have relatively small egos. Although you weren't really talking about 'the most intelligent people in the world' rather people who are intelligent - which i would agree with. It's the people who are 'reasonably' or 'sort of' smart who I have found to have the gigantic egos.
EDIT: <----- pointless post by me

ps. i really wanted to use bold i'm sorry if it was really unnecessary

[EvangelionZeta]

1. Intelligent people often come from intelligent parents, who will stress to their children the importance of schooling.
2. Schools often have special programs for "smart" kids to challenge them.
3. Similarly, if the school doesn't present such an opportunity, there are scholarships, places like Melbourne High/MacRob etc. which foster highly intellectual students.
4. Many smart kids have massive egos that come with their intelligence, and in the event that there is another smart kid in the class, they will strive to compete (and beat) them, hence more application in schoolwork.
5. Many of the best performers at school are the ones with some sort of social disability - hence, the "weirder" they are the more likely they will apply themselves (as often they don't have anything else to achieve in).

I'm not saying this applies to every intelligent person, but I am saying it does to a lot.  I can prove it because I'm Asian, know a lot of smart Asian kids (and by that I mean I have almost 1000 Facebook friends!!!!!1+shift) and go to a school that is supposed to represent a high level of intellegence within Victoria (median ENTER score of 90).

1,2, and 3 I took into account. I don't agree with 4. I think if the student has that big an ego they'll think that they can ace year 12 without doing anything. I didn't mean "weird" or "socially disabled", I meant messed up in the head...as in depressed\crazy. I wouldn't say that being "weird" makes you "messed up.

Ego might have been the wrong word.  Pride?  Competitive spirit?  Something like that.  The top kids are the ones I most frequently observe trying to best one another, regardless.

And in regards to 5, I've met a lot more socially inhibited smart people than crazy/depressed ones.  Of the 100 or so at my school in the "top stream" maths class (across year 9-12), there are about 0 crazy/depressed kids (from what I've observed, and I'm friends with most of them...).

[wombifat]

see, you're seeing "high marks in school" as meaning "high intelligence", so obviously it's not gonna work. Maybe those competitive kids are the top kids BECAUSE they are competitive, not the other way around.