Cohort Strength

[hyperblade01]

So far, 4 out of 5 SACs done, but we only know the marks of the first 3, which is 10 + 10 + 40 = 60

Currently we have about 60 or so methods students, and 4 or 5 have 50+ out of 60 for the internal score so far.
From what I've heard, alot of people have failed/done badly but this is really only people talking, so they could be exaggerating.

SAC 1&2, basically questions taken from some unknown textbook, nothing too hard.
SAC 3, based on maximum and minimums - that was seriously the only calculus in it.

How 'strong' is the cohort?

[Glockmeister]

Answer: D. Need more information.

Are you asking how strong the cohort is relative to the state?

[hyperblade01]

Yea sorry - relative to the state

[Gloamglozer]

Wouldn't this be hard to tell since each school sets different SACs?  For example, a strong cohort could be masked by extremely hard SACs.

[dior1]

pardon my ignorance, but what is a cohort?

[Gloamglozer]

pardon my ignorance, but what is a cohort?

It could mean everyone in a particular year level or everyone doing that particular subject.  For example, the year 12 cohort of 2009 at your school would be this year's year 12.

But the Methods cohort of 2009 at your school, would be everyone (including any year 11's) that is doing Methods in 2009 at your school.

EDIT:  Put it simply, it's pretty much a term used to describe a group of people.

[THem]

Say you're ranked 1 at a shit school and ranked 1 at a good school, would sac marks be "equivalent"?
When they do moderation of internal marks, is it like they calculate an average mark for every school and then they work out the "state-average" and students in schools below this mark will have this difference removed from their sac marks and schools above this mark will have their sacs moderated up?
EG: I keep checking previous Methods results and a lot of people have a difference of little to no exam marks but their study scores are quite different. When people say the actual mark doesn't matter and it's your rank, it makes me thing that rank 1 at a shit school = rank 1 at any other school. Is it that the actual mark doesn't matter for good schools because their sacs get moderated up? EG: say a bad school someone got 90% and was ranked 1. Would their sacs still get scaled down if they performed equally as well on the exam but the rest of class did poorly? If someone at a good school was ranked 1 ( say 90% as well) and did poorly ( 60-70%) would their sacs still get scaled up if the rest of their cohort does extremely well?
As far as I see now although they say people who are going to do well will do well regardless of which school they go to, it seems like those "top" schools have a major advantage just sac-wise :/
edit: What people seem to suggest in their posts is that an individual's sac marks will be moderated based on their exam performance but is it likely that VCAA will check this for every single person? to me it seems more likely they'll just scale a whole school at a time.

PS: just wondering coz I think my methods score is going to be shit coz my cohort is trash :S Sac marks seem to be the only explanation when I see people with similar exam marks but major differences in their study score ( even they though all say sacs: A+)

[appianway]

The final SAC marks would be equivalent if the top scorer from the top school scored the same as the top scorer for the lesser school in the exam. I think...

[hyperblade01]

What I've been told is the way scaling works is like a stretchy-string - assuming the ends are attached to something securely, no matter how hard you pull, the ends will stay where they are.

I don't know what it exactly means but I kinda understand..... it means the top scorer in SACs cannot be pulled down?

EG: say a bad school someone got 90% and was ranked 1. Would their sacs still get scaled down if they performed equally as well on the exam but the rest of class did poorly? If someone at a good school was ranked 1 ( say 90% as well) and did poorly ( 60-70%) would their sacs still get scaled up if the rest of their cohort does extremely well?

Well if something in a good school ranked 1 screwed up the exam, if someone scored like 90% in the exam then the person ranked 1 in SACs would take that exam mark? That's what I've been told (by ANOTHER teacher) that everyone is ranked in SACs and then each rank gets the corresponding exam score no matter who it is - so whoever is ranked 6th will get the 6th highest exam score as their SAC score.

But then this would contradict what I said earlier about the top scorer not being pulled down. If the highest exam mark turned out to be 65% then the number 1 in SACs would get that score even if they averaged 90-95%.

SOOOOOOO I think if the only difference between two ranked 1 individuals with identical exam scores is their school, there shouldnt be any difference in their Study Scores.






My original post is outdated - I know I'm ranked 1 now with a 97/100 and the school I go to has a Study Score average of like 27-29 most years...

[THem]

I'll use some examples ( no names) - although I can't confirm it, I think they're telling the truth. ( all based on 08)
1st: Someone who says they lost 4.5 over both exams - 48
2nd: says they lost 2.5 over both and it was -49
3rd: says they lost 6.5 over both and it was 44?
And all 3 of them have said they had "A+" sacs and have a strong cohort.
My only explanation is that they thought it was strong but it wasn't or is the difference of a few moderated sac marks, even amongst top schools, that much of a difference to your study score?
So that just makes me think, good school's sacs have such a big gap,so how badly would a shit school's sacs could impact your score?
I think my sac marks and exam marks are practically the same so I would hope my sac marks don't go down but my school's average is horrible. Like 5 classes ( approx ~100 students) doing Methods and the highest score last year was 37.

[angelboykevin]

i get really confusing from what it says above such :" everyone is ranked in SACs and then each rank gets the corresponding exam score no matter who it is - so whoever is ranked 6th will get the 6th highest exam score as their SAC score" and so on.,,, i come from a very strong cohort school, my ranking of method in school is about top 20to 15 i think,, but i got full mark for both method exam, is that mean i, gona get the top 15 shit exam score instead of my FULL MARK?
and the top ranking guy gona get my exam mark? that will be so fucking unfail if vcaa do so

[THem]

i get really confusing from what it says above such :" everyone is ranked in SACs and then each rank gets the corresponding exam score no matter who it is - so whoever is ranked 6th will get the 6th highest exam score as their SAC score" and so on.,,, i come from a very strong cohort school, my ranking of method in school is about top 20to 15 i think,, but i got full mark for both method exam, is that mean i, gona get the top 15 shit exam score instead of my FULL MARK?
and the top ranking guy gona get my exam mark? that will be so fucking unfail if vcaa do so

Your exam marks won't change. If you got 100% for both exams, that's your exam mark but he's saying that if you're ranked 20 (in SACS), then the 20th highest exam mark ( say it is 80%), would become your SAC marks. If your exam mark (100%) was the highest exam mark in the whole school, then the person ranked 1st in sacs would get 100% for their sac marks but their exam marks stay the same.
Well thats what it means based off his idea.

[angelboykevin]

quote author=THem link=topic=16385.msg198654#msg198654 date=1257837121]

i get really confusing from what it says above such :" everyone is ranked in SACs and then each rank gets the corresponding exam score no matter who it is - so whoever is ranked 6th will get the 6th highest exam score as their SAC score" and so on.,,, i come from a very strong cohort school, my ranking of method in school is about top 20to 15 i think,, but i got full mark for both method exam, is that mean i, gona get the top 15 shit exam score instead of my FULL MARK?
and the top ranking guy gona get my exam mark? that will be so fucking unfail if vcaa do so

Your exam marks won't change. If you got 100% for both exams, that's your exam mark but he's saying that if you're ranked 20 (in SACS), then the 20th highest exam mark ( say it is 80%), would become your SAC marks. If your exam mark (100%) was the highest exam mark in the whole school, then the person ranked 1st in sacs would get 100% for their sac marks but their exam marks stay the same.
Well thats what it means based off his idea.
[/quote]

lol thanks alot for the interpretation^^

[jimmy999]

See if someone who averages 95% on SACs, but the highest exam score in his class is a 65%, then the VCAA will interpret that as the class having really easy SACs. Therefore the rank 1 will get a 65% as their SAC mark besides their SAC average. In another situation, say everyone scores below 65% on the exam except one person who scores 95%, however they are ranked 10, this is where the ranks will change a bit and that person will get the 95% as their SAC mark because they may have been unfairly graded with SACs.

[vexx]

can you still do well (45+) if you have an extremely week cohort but do well in exams?
or must you do better than you would in an average/stronger cohort to make up for it?