Melbourne Postgrad Med vs Monash Undergrad Med

[ekay]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to get some opinions and thoughts about these two courses to help me decide which one to choose.

I am keen to do med and for the majority of my VCE I've been hoping to get a place in Monash's undergrad MBBS course. However, I was fortunate enough to get a high ATAR, which has granted me the guaranteed option to go through Melbourne Uni and do the MD there, an option I hadn't really considered previously since it is much more difficult and uncertain.

So right now I'm in a luxury position of trying to decide whether I should take the Melbourne graduate path or continue pursuing the Monash undergrad path. Do any of you guys have anything you can input on this? If you've had to make this decision too, I'd really like to hear your reasons for choosing one over the other. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much

[Russ]

It depends a bit on how focused you are on medicine and how interested you are in other opportunities.

As a general rule, I feel that the postgraduate medicine pathway is preferable for most high-school leavers. Given your guarantee also covers all other fields, such as engineering or law, I'd probably pursue that one.

[pi]

Congrats on your VCE success, honour the work

Firstly, if I were you, I'd search up AN for this or look in the board where I've moved this thread to, there are heaps of topics that delve into this in great depth. Good resources to read.

That aside, as Russ said, it's ultimately up to you. Do you want to broaden your horizons for an extra two years or do you want to get straight into it?

Having now had four years of uni experience, I'd probably agree with Russ that graduate-entry medicine is a better pathway for most students, it just gives them time to mature and explore uni life a bit better before hitting the rigors of med school. Having said that, it's not for everyone. Many people just want to get right into it, and don't want to fuss around with detailed knowledge about X, Y and Z that may not be directly related or may just be too detailed to be relevant to their practice as a doctor. There are people in my cohort who were ready to start at Monash at 16 years of age! There's really merit to both pathways and even with the worsening job market for doctors, 5 vs 7 years isn't a big deal.

Having said that, I know far too many people who had the same luxury as you (myself not included), and the vast majority chose Monash. I've never heard one of heard of one complaining and regretting the decision, they've all done fairly well in the coursework, and many (especially those from MHS) have risen to prominent leadership positions in not only the Monash med soc but also the Australia-wide one (a quick google of the 2009 dux will tell you what can be done!). From my cohort at MHS, 6 got the choice, 5 took Monash, if that means anything.

If it were me who had this opportunity, I'd probably still go to Monash. Not because of any profound academic reason (as I said, both sides have merits and they're probably about equal), but mainly because my year had 26 people who got in to the MBBS, and many were close pals, and I wouldn't be keen to ditch them or ever want them to be bossing me around on the wards as doctors more senior to me hahahaha.

Anyway, search and read those threads. Some users have written very long posts with pros and cons lists, should be helpful.

[abeybaby]

In the little that I have to offer, I can assure you that I wasted my undergrad years and didn't take it seriously. Having the end of one degree and beginning of another at the age of 21 really allows you to start afresh and actually work like an adult. I'm really glad that I ended up in a postgraduate pathway, and yes it is at least one extra year, but that's of almost no importance at this stage anyway...

Congratulations!

[ekay]

It depends a bit on how focused you are on medicine and how interested you are in other opportunities.

As a general rule, I feel that the postgraduate medicine pathway is preferable for most high-school leavers. Given your guarantee also covers all other fields, such as engineering or law, I'd probably pursue that one.

Thank you for your input!

Congrats on your VCE success, honour the work

Firstly, if I were you, I'd search up AN for this or look in the board where I've moved this thread to, there are heaps of topics that delve into this in great depth. Good resources to read.

That aside, as Russ said, it's ultimately up to you. Do you want to broaden your horizons for an extra two years or do you want to get straight into it?

Having now had four years of uni experience, I'd probably agree with Russ that graduate-entry medicine is a better pathway for most students, it just gives them time to mature and explore uni life a bit better before hitting the rigors of med school. Having said that, it's not for everyone. Many people just want to get right into it, and don't want to fuss around with detailed knowledge about X, Y and Z that may not be directly related or may just be too detailed to be relevant to their practice as a doctor. There are people in my cohort who were ready to start at Monash at 16 years of age! There's really merit to both pathways and even with the worsening job market for doctors, 5 vs 7 years isn't a big deal.

Having said that, I know far too many people who had the same luxury as you (myself not included), and the vast majority chose Monash. I've never heard one of heard of one complaining and regretting the decision, they've all done fairly well in the coursework, and many (especially those from MHS) have risen to prominent leadership positions in not only the Monash med soc but also the Australia-wide one (a quick google of the 2009 dux will tell you what can be done!). From my cohort at MHS, 6 got the choice, 5 took Monash, if that means anything.

If it were me who had this opportunity, I'd probably still go to Monash. Not because of any profound academic reason (as I said, both sides have merits and they're probably about equal), but mainly because my year had 26 people who got in to the MBBS, and many were close pals, and I wouldn't be keen to ditch them or ever want them to be bossing me around on the wards as doctors more senior to me hahahaha.

Anyway, search and read those threads. Some users have written very long posts with pros and cons lists, should be helpful.

Thank you so much pi! I spent all of last night reading through those old threads and they were really good reads, really appreciated it And honour the work indeed

In the little that I have to offer, I can assure you that I wasted my undergrad years and didn't take it seriously. Having the end of one degree and beginning of another at the age of 21 really allows you to start afresh and actually work like an adult. I'm really glad that I ended up in a postgraduate pathway, and yes it is at least one extra year, but that's of almost no importance at this stage anyway...

Congratulations!

Thank you! I've heard of similar experiences from friends as well

[Splash-Tackle-Flail]

I have some similar questions which I thought were relevant enough to not warrant a new thread:

Is it true that to specialise its recommend to do the bmedscience year at Monash?

With the harder job market for medicos will the MD have any greater significance than MBBS?

And would you guys who were given the choice for either MD or MBBS as school leavers (or if you were) be able to explain why or what you would choose? (Perhaps take into account scholarships etc? Is there much difference in campus life?

For some background info I'm really interested in either a neuroscience/psychiatry speciality eventually or cardiology, and I am worried
About the competiveness and harder degree of difficulty- like how hard is it to maintain 70% average in the MBBS?

[pi]

Is it true that to specialise its recommend to do the bmedscience year at Monash?

Nope, the higher you go up the chain (ie. specialising) the less they care about what you did in uni. No uni asks for you NAPLAN results to give you admission, do they? Same thing here, it helps, but doesn't make a huge difference. However, there is the option of converting the BMedSci to a PhD, that is definitely more useful for specialty training.

For interest, the reason why I'm doing the Honours year next year is because I kinda wanted a break from the wards and didn't really feel like travelling. I also wanted to learn something new, which is why I picked something in neuroradiology haha.

With the harder job market for medicos will the MD have any greater significance than MBBS?

No difference, everyone sees through what type of move UoM was trying to pull there. It's not fooling anyone

And would you guys who were given the choice for either MD or MBBS as school leavers (or if you were) be able to explain why or what you would choose? (Perhaps take into account scholarships etc? Is there much difference in campus life?

I've pretty much explained it what I would do: I'd choose Monash, but I wasn't given your choice.

From memory you have a rural background, I know that Monash loves all things rural (they even have a specific medical club for those with rural interests) and there will be plenty of people form similar areas to yourself. You shouldn't find it hard to fit in at all if that was a concern.

I can't comment on UoM campus life, but it's generally appreciated that Monash has a more "community" feel to it. This is likely because Clayton is literally in the middle of suburbia and there aren't really any other places to hang out other than the campus itself, so that's where people get to know each other. I know that more often than not, my UoM mates hit up the city whenever they can.

For some background info I'm really interested in either a neuroscience/psychiatry speciality eventually or cardiology, and I am worried
About the competiveness and harder degree of difficulty- like how hard is it to maintain 70% average in the MBBS?

As mentioned, med school grades don't really come into play at that stage of your career, but it's not hard to maintain 70%, that's probably below the median mark. Cardiology is ridiculously difficult to get into these days (let alone in 10-15 years when you'll be thinking about it!), and although it's appealing for you now, I'm sure you'll develop a whole heap of new interests through your journey

[Splash-Tackle-Flail]

Nope, the higher you go up the chain (ie. specialising) the less they care about what you did in uni. No uni asks for you NAPLAN results to give you admission, do they? Same thing here.

Ahh thanks that's good to know!

No difference, everyone sees through what type of move UoM was trying to pull there. It's not fooling anyone

Oh it fooled me lol- so the level 7 vs level 9 degree thing is bogus for med? In the future will they discriminate on level of degree?

I've pretty much explained it what I would do: I'd choose Monash, but I wasn't given your choice.

From memory you have a rural background, I know that Monash loves all things rural (they even have a specific medical club for those with rural interests) and there will be plenty of people form similar areas to yourself. You shouldn't find it hard to fit in at all if that was a concern.

Ahh sweet yea I am rural, but will be hopefully at mannix. This is really nice to know though

I can't comment on UoM campus life, but it's generally appreciated that Monash has a more "community" feel to it. This is likely because Clayton is literally in the middle of suburbia and there aren't really any other places to hang out other than the campus itself, so that's where people get to know each other. I know that more often than not, my UoM mates hit up the city whenever they can.

Ahh so no one is too affected by te location as far as social events and partying goes!?

As mentioned, med school grades don't really come into play at that stage of your career, but it's not hard to maintain 70%, that's probably below the median mark. Cardiology is ridiculously difficult to get into these days (let alone in 10-15 years when you'll be thinking about it!), and although it's appealing for you now, I'm sure you'll develop a whole heap of new interests through your journey

Yeah I'm sure I will find new interests- I'm honestly happy to do anything sciencey and fun that's interesting!! The problem is they revoke the scholarship if I don't get above 70% or something at Monash where as at UOM there is no undergrad requirements for WAM. Like of course I'm going to work hard and all I just need that reassurance it's not unbelievable difficult (my cousins were saying in uni you count your marks, instead of the marks you lose  )

I think my responses ended up in the quote because I'm technologically inept, but thanks again for your advice!

[REBORN]

No difference, everyone sees through what type of move UoM was trying to pull there. It's not fooling anyone

This is not entirely true. An M.D. has a research component incorporated into it and an MBBS does not unless you add on the 1 year. Now you can consider the time difference as 7 (melb) v 6 (monash). If you want to specialise these days it's incredibly important to have research under your belt.

[pi]

Oh it fooled me lol- so the level 7 vs level 9 degree thing is bogus for med? In the future will they discriminate on level of degree?

I think MBBS upped its level to 8 recently by giving everyone a free cheeky Hons, but in reality, no one cares haha, all the same thing

Ahh sweet yea I am rural, but will be hopefully at mannix. This is really nice to know though

Ahh so no one is too affected by te location as far as social events and partying goes!?

Mannix is the go-to place for rural people haha, you'll slot right in. They also have the best and wildest parties haha

Yeah I'm sure I will find new interests- I'm honestly happy to do anything sciencey and fun that's interesting!! The problem is they revoke the scholarship if I don't get above 70% or something at Monash where as at UOM there is no undergrad requirements for WAM. Like of course I'm going to work hard and all I just need that reassurance it's not unbelievable difficult (my cousins were saying in uni you count your marks, instead of the marks you lose  )

Shouldn't be an issue, as I said most people get above 70% You'll get that easily!

I think my responses ended up in the quote because I'm technologically inept, but thanks again for your advice!

Fixed it for ya

This is not entirely true. An M.D. has a research component incorporated into it and an MBBS does not unless you add on the 1 year. Now you can consider the time difference as 7 (melb) v 6 (monash). If you want to specialise these days it's incredibly important to have research under your belt.

The classic UoM line

In the grand scheme of things, neither the BMedSci or the research stint in the MD are going to matter much. The standard in the not-to-distant future will be a PhD along with other research along with a bunch of other things, so with that in mind perhaps the BMedSci is even more attractive as it can be fast-tracked into a PhD

Furthermore, from what I have heard, many MD students waste their research stint or don't get much out of it. Even when they had a compulsory research year in the old MBBS, it was wasted by many who weren't interested (and fair enough). And the counter-point to it is that you lose a semester (I think?) of clinical work before your intern year. I see this as pretty detrimental, and some of the UoM interns I observed during my years at Eastern were definitely less competent (to the point where they needed more supervision than us to do some procedures...) that those from Monash or Deakin. Granted, that's a tiny pool of graduates to be basing huge assumptions like that on (and I didn't draw any generalisations from it) and I'm sure there are incompetent interns everywhere from all unis (and they don't stay relatively incompetent for long due to the steep learning curve!), but I think having a solid clinical year prior to intern year to brush up on basic knowledge and skills seems like a /good thing/. This is why most BMedSci students at Monash take they year after they fourth year so they can prepare well for intern year.

Pros and cons with each, but MBBS+BMedSci wins over UoM MD research stint for me. Also, if rumours are to believed, there may be some research in the Monash course soon

[Russ]

Nobody really knows how hospitals score CVs for internships but putting multiple degrees on there is probably worth more points. Certainly back when the 'objective' EBCV was a thing, it was worth more points to be able to put an additional degree on there. This isn't related to Masters vs. Bachelors per se (nobody cares about the point score of your degree) but is relevant to the undergrad/postgrad model.

As mentioned, the guaranteed research exposure is nice but you can get essentially the same thing through the BMedSci/AMS year. You're not guaranteed a publication out of either, so it's still up to you to generate something yourself. Both streamline into a PhD if you're interested in that down the track.

Losing six months of clinical exposure and deskilling is obviously a negative and was quite annoying but having two months off before starting internship blanks it, since everybody is on the same page in that respect.

e, should probably clarify; putting a second degree on your CV isn't a silver bullet. The applications staff aren't stupid and know what's up - they care far more about the real content ie publications, working history etc. but it's nice to be able to say "BSc 2016-2019 with H1 average" or whatever.

[ekay]

Thanks for all your posts guys, really appreciate it all.

Just wanted to ask if you guys knew of people who accepted both scholarships from Monash and Melbourne and then later declined one? Right now I'm leaning towards Monash, but since we only find out about Monash offers next year, I'd have to accept both scholarships first. I've heard that it's ok to accept and then later decline a scholarship, but I'm just wondering if I put Monash as first pref and don't get it, would Melb still offer the scholarship if I had Biomed as pref 2 or 3?

[Splash-Tackle-Flail]

Thanks for all your posts guys, really appreciate it all.

Just wanted to ask if you guys knew of people who accepted both scholarships from Monash and Melbourne and then later declined one? Right now I'm leaning towards Monash, but since we only find out about Monash offers next year, I'd have to accept both scholarships first. I've heard that it's ok to accept and then later decline a scholarship, but I'm just wondering if I put Monash as first pref and don't get it, would Melb still offer the scholarship if I had Biomed as pref 2 or 3?

I'm in the same position and I called VTAC which said to accept both and if we don't get into Monash we still get chancellors

[ekay]

I'm in the same position and I called VTAC which said to accept both and if we don't get into Monash we still get chancellors

Thank you so much Splash-Tackle-Fail! I'll do that then.
Congrats on your perfect ATAR btw

[drake]

Thanks for all your posts guys, really appreciate it all.

Just wanted to ask if you guys knew of people who accepted both scholarships from Monash and Melbourne and then later declined one? Right now I'm leaning towards Monash, but since we only find out about Monash offers next year, I'd have to accept both scholarships first. I've heard that it's ok to accept and then later decline a scholarship, but I'm just wondering if I put Monash as first pref and don't get it, would Melb still offer the scholarship if I had Biomed as pref 2 or 3?

yep from what i remember, you get both. if you decline one, then you get the other one!