How are you supposed to know what rank you are?

[geminii]

Hey everyone,

A lot of people have been posting questions which mention that they're rank 1 in their cohort, or rank 2, or rank so and so, and I was wondering how did they find that out? Do your teachers tell you what rank you are? I heard one of my teachers mention that they don't disclose the rankings of any of the classes to the students, to maintain confidentiality.

So, once I start term 1 and do my sacs and everything, how will I know what rank I am?

[Joseph41]

It depended on the subject for me. Usually I'd ask, and my teachers seemed so surprised that I even knew what a 'rank' was that they'd tell me.

Other subjects, I'd just estimate or go by feel without really knowing.

I would try not to get too caught up by it, though.

[ekay]

Hey AceVCE777,

You're right, teachers usually aren't willing to reveal rankings so people estimate their rank by asking their peers what marks they got and calculate from there. Subject prizes are also sometimes awarded by schools and are given to the student who is rank 1, so that's another way people know.

[MightyBeh]

My school doesn't tell either, but that's never stopped me from asking. You never know, maybe you'll end up buddy-buddy enough with some of the staff and they'll do you a solid

Generally if your cohort is pretty spread out in terms of skill, and small enough you'll be able to work it out. Kind of a "Okay, Howard's good, Jenny's good, I did better than Jenny so I'll be rank 1 if I did better than Howard" deal. Best just to do your best and not worry about anyone else though, since you can only change your own work.

[pi]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, 'don't play the numbers game, play the "do the best I can" game'. The more you focus on things that you can't change (ie. other people's academic performance and therefore rankings), the more stressed you'll be, I can guarantee it. I've been where you are, I once wondered about rankings and how that all worked, but it doesn't do anyone any good and I decided to not really worry about where I stood. A relatively stress-free VCE is a good VCE.

[babushka818]

Just going to throw my 2c in the mix. My school doesn't have strict guidelines on rank privacy. Many teachers I've had give us ranks just to know where we stand. But they still don't do it publicly (eg talk to people individually to see what rank they are, not tell the whole class everyone's).

It might depend on your school. If your teachers haven't mentioned it to you, I'd suggest maybe asking them outside of class time if you really want to know. But as others have mentioned, it's not that important. Set your goals and work towards achieving them; if you focus on improving your marks instead of checking where everyone else is at, you'll do well.

Good luck and don't make rankings your top priority! You are the one who will change your results, so put your time and effort into what you're doing to achieve your goals.

[Smashby]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, 'don't play the numbers game, play the "do the best I can" game'. The more you focus on things that you can't change (ie. other people's academic performance and therefore rankings), the more stressed you'll be, I can guarantee it. I've been where you are, I once wondered about rankings and how that all worked, but it doesn't do anyone any good and I decided to not really worry about where I stood. A relatively stress-free VCE is a good VCE.

At first I was dismayed when I learned my school didn't even reveal SAC marks, let alone rankings. Of course you have an inkling of where you fit into your cohort, but I believe the benefits of not knowing exactly where you sit are threefold:

-you don't get complacent at the top;
-you don't get disheartened at the bottom;
-you thus continue to strive no matter your overall position.

As pi says, VCE is stressful enough without pitting yourself against your friends, your allies when it comes to the end-of-year exam, on a daily basis.

In terms of SACs then, learn to embrace a sort of blissful ignorance. Control the "controllables", that is to say your own effort and application, and things will fall into place. 

[Alter]

To give a point a view completely opposite to that of Smashby's, I attended a school which is/was very open and transparent in this regard. In classes, we'd often receive dot plots showing our position in the cohort as well as estimated study scores which we'd have to use to calculate our predicted ATAR at the end of every term. Contrary to the above post, we received our SAC results and our teachers would be very open to discussing ranking, not keeping it a secret. In a similar vein, we were shown the scores of people in the cohort of the previous year (obviously without names) and their corresponding ranking to figure out where we might end up if we continue trekking along a similar path.

In one sense, this was very good. We were not misled about the position we'd be at by the end of the year, and most of my predictions were quite accurate (if not a little conservative). Moreover, it helped encourage a friendly competitiveness where you strived to improve your rank as you could visibly see it change after you did well in a SAC.

However, at a holistic level, I'd say it fostered a pretty vitriolic environment and turned SACs into a battle against your peers. This was especially true in smaller cohorts (e.g. my German class) where it was very obvious where everyone stood in comparison to each other. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to ignore the progress of others and simply focus on your own schooling. I think this is because we naturally seek to compare our academic progress against others if that's how our ATAR is ultimately determined.

[Orson]

Hey AceVCE777,

You're right, teachers usually aren't willing to reveal rankings so people estimate their rank by asking their peers what marks they got and calculate from there. Subject prizes are also sometimes awarded by schools and are given to the student who is rank 1, so that's another way people know.

I think subject dux doesn't really let you know who was rank one, just who aced the exam...

[Alter]

I think subject dux doesn't really let you know who was rank one, just who aced the exam...

He's referring to subject prizes that are done internally, typically before exams, by the school itself. This is pretty common for high schools and such awards are given to students if they're rank 1 going into the exam.

[babushka818]

While I agree with the other posts in that you shouldn't be concerned with other people's performance, knowing your rank can be good if you go to a dodgy school. Getting a good SAC ranking in a below average cohort is vital in getting a good study score and knowing your rank can give you some peace of mind.

Though this is true, I don't think it's completely necessary. If you know your marks, perhaps not your rank, and you're comfortable with how you're doing, that's what will give you peace of mind. Correct me if I'm wrong please, but if you're doing really badly but still have a good rank, that doesn't mean you'll get a really high study score, does it? Of course if you're doing well in a not-so-great cohort, that's good and important for your study score, but again, I feel it is more your capability, your understanding of course content and how you perceive your position in relation to what you know, that will give you confidence in achieving good study scores. And if you know your marks, you can to some extent work out approximately where you stand in the cohort.

[appleandbee]

Though this is true, I don't think it's completely necessary. If you know your marks, perhaps not your rank, and you're comfortable with how you're doing, that's what will give you peace of mind. Correct me if I'm wrong please, but if you're doing really badly but still have a good rank, that doesn't mean you'll get a really high study score, does it? Of course if you're doing well in a not-so-great cohort, that's good and important for your study score, but again, I feel it is more your capability, your understanding of course content and how you perceive your position in relation to what you know, that will give you confidence in achieving good study scores. And if you know your marks, you can to some extent work out approximately where you stand in the cohort.

Being rank one in a cohort is only good if the person is in a good school or does really well in the exam. In a good school, it's great because a friend of mine was rank one in English at Melbourne Grammar a few years back, where the cohort was really strong (around 12 people received perfect SS in Eng in his year). He didn't do too well in the exam, but still managed an SS of 45 (if it wasn't for the strong cohort and SAC grades, he would have got a 41-43). In a weak school, a rank 1 is in the best position to get a 50 if they top the exam. Yeah obviously, being rank one doesn't mean that much if you're only in that position purely because the cohort is weak, and not on your own merit/ ability. They will end up not doing great on the exam and their SACs will be moderated against it.It’s better to be ranked just slightly above average in a really good school. In English, the top third of my cohort’s grades were basically clumped together, so my ranking wasn't great even though I scored high 90s in one unit and low 90s in the other. In didn't really matter in the end, as my ranking wasn't great primarily because I was in a strong cohort. In the end, my SS wasn't affected. That said, while it doesn't guarantee a good score, it’s better to be rank one in a weak cohort than rank 2 or 3. You can't change the cohort or school you’re in, so you may as well try do your best within it and put yourself in the best position possible. At the end of the day, just do your best and hopefully things work out.

[geminii]

He's referring to subject prizes that are done internally, typically before exams, by the school itself. This is pretty common for high schools and such awards are given to students if they're rank 1 going into the exam.

Yeah, we have those too, but for the overall year. People who rank highest in a certain class get the DUX of that class at the end of the year.
I don't know, I just hear so many people on AN saying "I'm rank '...'" but I never knew how they figured it out?
I'll definitely ask my teachers, it can't hurt and I might as well once I start year 11.

[SlothPlays]

Yeah, we have those too, but for the overall year. People who rank highest in a certain class get the DUX of that class at the end of the year.
I don't know, I just hear so many people on AN saying "I'm rank '...'" but I never knew how they figured it out?
I'll definitely ask my teachers, it can't hurt and I might as well once I start year 11.

My teacher read out the sac marks in my class as she handed it back to us.

[strawberries]

It depends on your school and your teachers.
My school for example, will probably never tell you your rank. They would say the average or the highest mark if someone asks. Sometimes they'll say who got the highest mark.
One of our teachers handed back SACs in order of highest to lowest mark (without explicitly stating it but we figured it out).
Some schools often award 'subject prizes' at the end of year Presentation Night, and that is usually awarded to the rank 1.
Most of the time, I estimated my rankings simply based on averages and what my friends/classmates got.
Some schools may individually tell students their rankings though.

However, don't really worry about rankings. Like it has been mentioned here, try your best. I was way too obsessed with rankings and after every SAC or so I'd ask about it. In the end, it did me no favours and just allowed me to pointlessly worry and ask questions on AN rather than doing actual studying lol