Lectures in common? Science and Biomedicine

[ultimateone]

Hey guys! Kind of amateur with how the uni works and stuff so excuse my noobness. But I'm planning to study Science at UoM and a friend of mine will be doing Biomed at the uni too. If we decide to take the same major and subjects, will we be in the same lectures or are Science and Biomedicine students segregated?

Thanks in advance

[cassiecate]

You'll be in the same subject as long as the subject code is the same, though there might be different lecture streams (especially in first year subjects), if there's only one stream, you'll be in the same lecture with students with all kinds of degrees who enrolled in this subject.

[ultimateone]

Thanks for the info, but what do you mean by streams? Mind clarifying on how diff streams can be identified apart from the subject code? Are you saying diff streams can share the same exact code?

[Alter]

Actually, you'll be in different subjects for first year and second year. Biomed students complete different subjects for biology, chemistry, maths, physics, stats, and their own unique double subjects in 2nd year. None of these classes can be entered by Science students except for Physics 2: Life Sciences, but you do get slightly different but functionally equivalent alternatives.

You may overlap with your friend for breadth in any year, their 2nd year Biomed selectives, or their 3rd year major sequence.

Hope this helps.

[ultimateone]

Actually, you'll be in different subjects for first year and second year.

Well that's interesting, I was told you can do the exact same subjects in both degrees with the difference being that Biomed has its core subjects. I ended up choosing Science because of the flexibility, but me and my friend thought we can both do the same subjects and be together since we both have the same interests and goals of going into Medicine. And is the major sequence only in third year? I thought the majors are studied from second year.

On another topic, how does your schedule look like? How many days a week do you attend uni?

[Alter]

Well that's interesting, I was told you can do the exact same subjects in both degrees with the difference being that Biomed has its core subjects. I ended up choosing Science because of the flexibility, but me and my friend thought we can both do the same subjects and be together since we both have the same interests and goals of going into Medicine. And is the major sequence only in third year? I thought the majors are studied from second year.

On another topic, how does your schedule look like? How many days a week do you attend uni?

This is still true to an extent. The biology that you do in first year science is almost identical to that in Biomed (same lecturers, very similar content, very similar exams). The difference is that if you do science, you can emulate what a Biomed student would do without actually doing the same subjects, but Biomed students are locked into cores which are specialised for knowledge for going into the health sciences. In this sense, science students have more flexibility. You can start picking different subjects early and you can do all the prereqs for med without doing all the maths/stats etc that we do.

The major sequence is technically in third year for Biomed students. I haven't researched how it works for Science, but I assume it's similar. You might need to do 2nd year prerequisites for a particular major or opt to do major subjects early, however.

My uni schedule typically involves me having to go in 4 days a week. First year is a lot worse than 2nd/3rd for Biomed because you're stuck in inflexible core subjects, so your timetable basically writes itself. If it helps, I'll post my timetable for sem 1 last year and my one that will exist this year for comparison's sake. On my phone atm though.

Hope this helps.

[ultimateone]

This is still true to an extent. The biology that you do in first year science is almost identical to that in Biomed (same lecturers, very similar content, very similar exams). The difference is that if you do science, you can emulate what a Biomed student would do without actually doing the same subjects, but Biomed students are locked into cores which are specialised for knowledge for going into the health sciences. In this sense, science students have more flexibility. You can start picking different subjects early and you can do all the prereqs for med without doing all the maths/stats etc that we do.

The major sequence is technically in third year for Biomed students. I haven't researched how it works for Science, but I assume it's similar. You might need to do 2nd year prerequisites for a particular major or opt to do major subjects early, however.

My uni schedule typically involves me having to go in 4 days a week. First year is a lot worse than 2nd/3rd for Biomed because you're stuck in inflexible core subjects, so your timetable basically writes itself. If it helps, I'll post my timetable for sem 1 last year and my one that will exist this year for comparison's sake. On my phone atm though.

Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot! I'd really appreciate if you can post your timetable, would be helpful.

And yeah, I'm aware of the core content. It's actually why I decided not to do Biomed, as Maths is something I just can't deal with and I couldn't believe I could finally get rid of it after high school. If the outcome is the same, with many alumni telling me that they feel like Biomedicine just put extra stress on them and don't feel like they're more prepared for further study in fields like Medicine than their Science peers, may I ask why you chose to do Biomedicine? I'm sure you have your reasons.

Regarding majors, my question is: if we take the same majors and in turn the same subjects within that major, why can't we be in the same classes if they have the same exact subject codes?

Thanks a lot for the informative and quick responses, truly appreciated.

[Alter]

Thanks a lot! I'd really appreciate if you can post your timetable, would be helpful.

And yeah, I'm aware of the core content. It's actually why I decided not to do Biomed, as Maths is something I just can't deal with and I couldn't believe I could finally get rid of it after high school. If the outcome is the same, with many alumni telling me that they feel like Biomedicine just put extra stress on them and don't feel like they're more prepared for further study in fields like Medicine than their Science peers, may I ask why you chose to do Biomedicine? I'm sure you have your reasons.

Regarding majors, my question is: if we take the same majors and in turn the same subjects within that major, why can't we be in the same classes if they have the same exact subject codes?

Thanks a lot for the informative and quick responses, truly appreciated.

Semester 1, 2016 (1st year biomed)

Spoiler

Semester 1, 2017 (2nd year)

Spoiler

As you can see, 1st year 1st sem is pretty packed with compulsory classes/tutes and has lectures with non-negotiable times (which, as you can see,  caused a clash in my timetable with german which I took for the day off). This also meant that I had more awkward gaps in my timetable. If you do biomed, you're basically forced to stay from 8am to 4:15-5pm because of the bio to chem lecture progression. I **THINK** that there is better flexibility in Science, where lectures are repeated at different times in a day to accomodate for people. This is a 'stream', as referred to by cassiecate. Streams don't exist in 1st year biomed apart from Physics 2 lectures, but I didn't do this subject so I can't say for sure. 2nd year is a bit better, where I can use Wed/Fri as days off by watching lectures at home, and I'm not forced to stay at uni from 8am to 5pm waiting for lectures, which I think is a real time killer, especially given I commute from very far away.

To be 100% candid with you, a lot of the time Biomed feels precisely like a restricted science degree that is made arbitrarily harder on the basis that that 'the cohort is smart, let's make it harder for them!'. This is especially true for biomed cores, where you can do identical work in Science without the added pain of squeezing two subjects into one semester or dealing with extra challenges. If you want to get a great GPA, it's (arguably) harder in biomed, but this is quite a trivial point. In fact, this is a pretty silly complaint overall, as you can't expect uni to be a walk in the park, and the content you learn is generally well-taught and interesting.

So to answer your question as to why I did Biomed > Science, there is no real definitive answer. I honestly was happy to do either, but I knew that I wanted to go into a career in the health sciences, so it just made sense at the time. Additionally, I wasn't too dissuaded by the compulsory maths subjects (in retrospect I would've preferred the freedom to do psych or s/t in Science instead) at the time, and I liked the idea of being in a close-knit cohort where I'd get to know people personally. 

Re: majors - I think there was a miscommunication between us here. You can and will end up being in the same subjects (same classes, lectures, etc) if you're doing the same major sequence. However, biomed people generally don't do this until 3rd year. As you put it: same subject code, same subject.

Have a nice day.

[vox nihili]

Short answer is yes you'll have lectures with your friend if you do the same major. In first year, all of your subjects except for breadth are core (i.e. not shared with science). In second year, 2/3 of your non-breadth subjects are also core (so 1/3 subjects you might share with your science mate if you choose the same selective). In third year, only 1/3 of non-breadth is core, so all of your major subjects are shared by you and your friend. For instance, if you did a pharm major, you'd have all your pharm subjects together in third year and second year if you choose pharm as a selective then.

[ultimateone]

Cheers for the insight guys