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Author Topic: UniMelb Commerce Finance/Economics or Actuarial Major  (Read 4767 times)  Share 

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randomguy7

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UniMelb Commerce Finance/Economics or Actuarial Major
« on: September 19, 2017, 06:57:35 pm »
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Hey Guys
I am in a bit of a predicament here.
As the title says, I am not sure which major I should follow through with.
I think the best way to answer this is, what do you want to do in the future?
I don’t know exactly what I would like to do but I would say its somewhere in the direction of a quantitative analyst / portfolio manager.
I have no interest in becoming an actual fully qualified Actuary.

I have intentions to study a Master of Financial Engineering/ Financial mathematics in the future.

Having realised that to get into a top MFE course you generally need a strong background in math.
Given I am already one year into a 3-year course I have thought about transferring in Bachelor of Science and studying straight math but that would require me to start from year 1 again. Given that, I think its best that I continue with commerce as I don’t want to waste a year in university.

My reasons for considering the Actuarial Major is simple. I love the subjects especially the financial mathematics ones.

Either pathway Finance or Actuarial I plan to pursue their respective Honours year.

Below are the subjects I plan to take if majoring in Actuarial Studies. I am already aware that I don’t have all the required subjects for actuarial accreditation as I have no intention of becoming an Actuary.
With this study plan which incorporates level ¾ Finance and Econometric subjects will I have a good background for possibly entering Asset management or Investment Banking upon graduation given the marks are not an issue? And with this study plan will I have a better chance at getting into a top MFE program given a 170 GRE quant score than I would if I majored in Finance.

Any comments would be helpful thanks!

Year 2   Principles of Property                       Investment and Finance for Property
           Organisational Behavior                          Corporate Financial Decision Making
           Probability                                      Statistics
           Financial Mathematics l                      Financial Mathematics ll
         
Year 3   Corporate Finance                              Derivative Securities
           Econometrics                                      Time Series Analysis & Forecasting
           Actuarial Modelling ll                      Actuarial Statistics
           Financial Mathematics lll                      Models for Insurance & Finance
         
Year 4     Actuarial Studies Research Essay       Actuarial Studies Research Essay
          Advanced Corporate Finance              Advanced Derivative Securities
          Advanced Financial Mathematics l      Advanced Financial Mathematics ll
          Risk Theory l                                      Risk Theory ll


stolenclay

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Re: UniMelb Commerce Finance/Economics or Actuarial Major
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 02:05:27 am »
+12
So this probably isn't the answer you want to hear...

First I'll just point out that the rest of my post is from the perspective of wanting to be a quant, i.e. I won't be commenting much on your prospects of entering asset management or IB upon your graduation after 4 years (i.e. without an MFE). Only point I have to say there is that your university background for IB is nowhere near as important as your knowledge of recent big deals and macroeconomic conditions (and being able to form opinions on transactions). Not too sure about asset management.

If you've researched about MFEs then you probably know that an MFE qualification doesn't stand much of a chance against a mathematics PhD (can be a financial mathematics PhD) for wanting to be a quant if other achievements are equal. In the same vein, my main advice is to study as much maths as possible. Take a look at the recommended book list on Mark Joshi's website for example. You will not be exposed to the levels (or fields) of mathematics that are present in the analysis or probability theory books on that page if you stick with the study plan options you posted above. You probably know that Mark Joshi happens to be the Director of the Centre for Actuarial Studies at the university and that he has a wealth of experience in the quantitative finance industry, so his word is reliable (or, at the very least, believable).

Having come from a very similar background as you at university (BCom in Actuarial) and also seriously looking at the quant finance career path, the first thing I can tell you is that I feel I have an inadequate background in maths. I took on a concurrent maths diploma in undergrad, so I have more maths subjects than you but less Finance/Economics. I can definitely say my competence in complex analysis and differential equations is not up to scratch. Whether you feel that these are important for being a quant is up to you, but if you read books on quantitative finance then Fourier or partial differential equation techniques are not uncommon. (For asset management and IB, the story is obviously going to be different, since the mathematics requirement is just not the same.) I didn't study most of the Finance/Economics subjects you have listed, but for a quant finance career I don't think it is much of an obstacle in the way of quant ambitions.

I would absolutely say that you should just switch entirely to a BSc (despite you saying you don't want to waste your first year at uni), were it not for the fact that this could present problems for enrolling in Advanced Financial Mathematics ll. This is my second piece of advice: If you are going to be completing a significant amount of your tertiary study at UoM, do whatever is in your ability to be able to enrol in Advanced Financial Mathematics ll.

Advanced Financial Mathematics ll has in recent years been taught by Mark Joshi himself (and I see no indication of this changing any time in the near future). This is essentially the quant subject offered at the university, in the sense that you will be exposed to an amazing mix of pragmatic and theoretical knowledge of quantitative finance. I am currently studying this subject, and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I did not satisfy the official prerequisites, but I did study subjects which Mark deemed sufficient as background. I take this to mean that you will be able to enrol if you have the sufficient background as judged by Mark (rather than strictly Advanced Financial Mathematics I as is listed in the handbook). For example, the main reason I was able to enrol was because of a Masters-level maths subject Stochastic Calculus with Applications. Most people qualify for AFM2 via AFM1, so these are people enrolled in an Honours year in actuarial studies or an MCom in Actuarial Science (I am not one of them).

Putting together my two pieces of advice, I would say you do this: Enrol in a concurrent maths diploma, and do not cross-credit any maths subjects. This is the easiest way to study as much maths as possible, while maintaining eligibility for an Honours year, or rather, AFM2. In fact, this really allows you to preserve most of your planned subject choices at the expense of a later graduation. In my opinion, an extra one or two years at uni is just not a material problem in the grand scheme of things, unless you have some serious financial considerations.

In terms of the specialisation for the diploma, I would suggest one of
The specialisation is just a formality, because what you really need to care about are your subject choices for the diploma.

Essential

Highly recommended

Might be nice

I haven't discussed any of the logistic issues with fitting these subjects into a study plan.

Apologies for this not being the answer you were probably wanting, but I hope it helps in some way.
Thoughts on my journey through university
2014–2016 BCom (Actl), DipMathSc @ UoM
2017–2018 Master of Science (Mathematics and Statistics) @ UoM

TrueTears

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Re: UniMelb Commerce Finance/Economics or Actuarial Major
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 06:41:30 am »
+3
stolenclay has summarized it perfectly.

Take as much maths as you possibly can.
PhD @ MIT (Economics).

Interested in asset pricing, econometrics, and social choice theory.

randomguy7

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Re: UniMelb Commerce Finance/Economics or Actuarial Major
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2017, 09:17:13 pm »
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Hey! :D :D
Sorry for replying late i didnt expect anyone would give advice.
I thoroughly read your advice and i could not be more pleased.
After deep thought i believe its best i just stay away from the actuarial major. With the actuarial major 2 breadths cannot be math...
And the insurance applications is exactly what i want to avoid lol
If i take the finance/economics major i can spam math electives in all 6 slots. Linear Algebra/Calc 2 ; finshed/finishing this semester
And then with the diploma in math i get to spam 8 more math subjects. So in total 14 math subjects LOL.
The only thing i will be missing out on here is advanced financial mathematics 2 but i guess its just something that can be learnt later on in a masters level course.
With this study plan will honors in Finance be any important for future quant opportunities assuming i make the cut? Or i will just go straight to work!
Thanks again you guys have been great!!!

2018
Probability                                                    Statistics
Vector Calculus                                            Differential Equations
Discrete Maths & Operations Research       Real Analysis
Intermediate Microeconomics                      Intermediate Macroeconomics

2019      
Organisational Behavior                            Corporate Financial Decision Making
Complex Analysis                                      Techniques in Operations Research
Probability for Inference                             Stochastic Modelling
Linear Statistical Models                            Modern Applied Statistics

2020      
Econometrics                                              Time Series Analysis & Forecasting
Investments                                                Macroeconomics
Corporate Finance                                      Derivative Securities
Financial Mathematics l                              Financial Mathematics ll

stolenclay

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Re: UniMelb Commerce Finance/Economics or Actuarial Major
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2017, 10:22:44 pm »
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Honestly seeing this makes me a bit jealous :'(

The study plan looks good! Shame about OB though I was a bit reluctant to steer you away from Actuarial completely, but it's good you came to that conclusion anyway!

I don't know much about the Finance Honours subjects. I can think of maybe two Level 4 Finance subjects that are relevant for being a quant:
If you found yourself in the Finance Honours program wanting to be a quant after graduating, you would definitely do Advanced Derivative Securities (ADS). Numerical Techniques in Finance, as the name suggests, would cover more general numerical and computational techniques that graduates might find themselves using. Inevitably, if you did become a quant, you would/should go far beyond the content in Numerical Techniques in Finance. I've yet to really hear any opinions on either of these two subjects myself, apart from ADS being the hardest Finance subject ever offered by the University (with a matching failure rate to boot). You'll notice that ADS has AFM1 as an anti-requisite though, which suggests AFM2 probably still goes beyond ADS.

In terms of missing out on AFM2, with this study plan you should be set to qualify academically for any MFE in Australia (e.g. Master of Quantitative Finance at UTS) and possible those in the US, so you'll be able to cover AFM2-level material in a coursework setting in the future if you wish. Doing the subject AFM2 itself may be an issue, since you'll need some stochastic calculus somewhere to be eligible. (In your original study plan, stochastic calculus would have been in Models for Insurance and Finance and AFM1.) If the timing is right you could enrol in MAST90059 Stochastic Calculus with Applications, which runs once every two years; it ran this year in 2017, so in the absence of any changes it should run in 2021. That might let you into AFM2 if you want to do it during Finance Honours.

Hmm now with this study plan, it may still be possible to get into entry-level quant positions in Australia without Finance Honours. Personally I'd be inclined to hold off on trying to get quant work until I'd at least encountered AFM1/ADS-level content, because the options pricing content there is quite fundamental for a quant (globally speaking). In Australian quant interviews, it's definitely possible to make the cut without AFM1/ADS-level content for entry-level positions where they're only asking for an undergraduate qualification.
Thoughts on my journey through university
2014–2016 BCom (Actl), DipMathSc @ UoM
2017–2018 Master of Science (Mathematics and Statistics) @ UoM