James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE

[xXNovaxX]

All year in Japanese, all I have done in class is past exam questions, how to score high on essays, how to minimise mark loss on the oral exam, and yeah. I didn't learn anything about Japanese at all. All my learning was basically done at home. I think this is the sort of stuff that James Lu is attacking.

Your DP is cool again btw =D

Um, but thats why in LOTE the Government requires you to learn about "culture", well in years 7-10 anyway we learnt a lot about the people, cities etc, and had to do an assignment about the COUNTRY, and it had to be done in English so as to appreciate their way of life.

Can I just add, but who said people HAVEN'T learnt anything?

For example I solely base my performance on the exams etc because I do BETTER when I am appreciating the subject and really aligning to it if that makes sense?

In other words in subjects where I have memorized....failed to appreciate the concepts etc, I did poor in.

Take Mathematics for example, you CANNOT do well unless you APPRECIATE the core principles, IMO anyway, can one of the Maths Gods on here comment on this?

[QuantumJG]

 "Our education system" churning out "students who are afraid to fail, afraid to go beyond syllabus requirements, and perhaps even afraid to genuinely learn."

OOO, so THATS the contention.

Well, now it makes a bit more sense ><

I completely disagree here, because the MAJORITY of people, do not really care or MIND. Let me put it this way, I think every single user on this website, (fine, except 1-2%) really fall into this category that James talked about, CARE about their VCE, and learning, and doing well etc.


However, for the majority of students they dont really care.

A perfect example is VCAL people, or people who plan to go to TAFE,, I know so many people who are only doing a single TAFE course whilst juggling VCE, and therefore do no CARE about their VCE, and are merely doing it to preoccupy their time until they can start TAFE full on.

There are about 10-15 of these type of people in every school really, save for maybe inner city? I don;t know, but yeah, do you think they care in differentiating between "am I learning for myself, or am I just rote learning?"

And can I also stress this is not BAD, I am not doing a "them" versus "us".

Now, 99% of us on this site do fit into James category of people who care about their education.

I know 4 people already who scored 30-40 as their ENTER, four! And I have only asked 10 people their ENTER scores... (well 10 people told me, not me asking), these people do not even plan to go to my career adviser to work out a pathway! I was so shocked by this......their reason?

"I can't be bothered"

My reaction= o.O

Many people on this site come from private school, or inner city school, so please just think outside the box for a little here, in many public schools people are doing TAFE, VCAL, and even VCE "just to get a score and move on", not many care whether the curriculum is good or not.

Can I also say, of COURSE, many people I know want to do good, and care about exams blah blah.

Conclusion= the system is not bad people! For those who don't like the structured system of VCE, have TAFE, VCAL, VET etc.

don't hurt me

Lol.

At my school (I went to a public school), the scores were very stretched. You had a few get above 97 and a few get like 30, most students are inbetween. Basically in our VCE study centre <10% would study and the rest would do nothing, so I can understand xXNovaxX's point.

The VCE system isn't bad, but isn't perfect (nothing can be perfect). As xXNovaxX said we have an array of stuff for people to do if they don't like VCE. The system though doesn't allow students to extend beyond their subject's syllabus (not that every year 12 is diving for MORE work) or it causes students to have a skewed view of success (say going to uni picturing success as getting good marks instead of learning about what you are studying - yes I was a culprit of this). So it can cause you to develop bad habbits that you spend your first year trying to get rid of (e.g. Studying for exams in uni doesn't mean doing 20 practice exams).

[Nic K]

When deciding what should be taught in VCE, it is critical that the course does not become crammed full of information to be taught. If we do that, it can become extremely difficult for students to learn everything and for it to stick (excluding those who can read something and remember it forever).

The course should be structured so that the learning of knowledge and skills is a permanently taught thing in my opinion.

[SoarBeyond]

Of course there will still be flaws in the system, but it would help to amend much of the problems James has dictated (i.e. improve on the current system). Minor things such as the frequent distinguishing of the excellence in teachers (based on annual VCE-equivalent exams) rather than solely the students puts pressure on the teachers to perform better. (Plus, there are way more people in China than there is in Australia, something that obviously can't be 'fixed' quickly, and hence schools have more liberty into sacking teachers not performing to the adequate level in order to higher better ones.) From what I have heard, China has standardized subjects that the students have to do as a mandatory course. Of course, this gives students less liberty in doing what they want, but provides a standardized foundation (which is particularly broad) for the students to build on in later life. As there are in everything, there are some flaws in this system, but I believe it MAY work better than the current one. Scores are based on a mark (just like in America), I think!, which has nothing to do with study scores, etc. etc, but more of an added total. If there are 100 questions, and you get 96 right, then the contribution would be 96, instead of scaling up and down. This also amends the contentions of having to balance hard and easy subjects, as everyone is doing the same ones!

[Tashi]

^ hmm, scores a based on a mark - I don't really know what you mean.

I know that in a America, universities accept people on a combination of SAT scores, application letters, essays, interviews, references, activities/clubs etc.

[midas_touch]

James has pointed out what most of us agree in regards to VCE, but there is no easy fix in regards to our high school education system. The real learning begins at uni.

[xXNovaxX]

James has pointed out what most of us agree in regards to VCE, but there is no easy fix in regards to our high school education system. The real learning begins at uni.

but is that a BAD thing?

If the system was SO bad, don't you think our Uni's would be crap? When clearly there not (look at pplz studying here form o/s, and look at rankings by international organizations)

If the VCE system was so bad, people wouldn't be scoring so well. So many people are happy at their results.

btw midas_touch, not attacking you, just creating new points/areas of interest

[EvangelionZeta]

Just like to say that this is probably one of the best threads I've seen in a while in terms of pure intellectual discussion.  Love you all for this, even if I try to argue against what you say.  :p

[xXNovaxX]

Just like to say that this is probably one of the best threads I've seen in a while in terms of pure intellectual discussion.  Love you all for this, even if I try to argue against what you say.  :p

I reckon! Nobody is flaming each other (except one instance), and everybody is talking so intelligently, makes me so proud >< LMAO

[Tashi]

James has pointed out what most of us agree in regards to VCE, but there is no easy fix in regards to our high school education system. The real learning begins at uni.

but is that a BAD thing?

If the system was SO bad, don't you think our Uni's would be crap? When clearly there not (look at pplz studying here form o/s, and look at rankings by international organizations)

If the VCE system was so bad, people wouldn't be scoring so well. So many people are happy at their results.

btw midas_touch, not attacking you, just creating new points/areas of interest

I think VCE measures a person's dedication and hard work pretty well, as it takes a lot of effort to get a good score - therefore showing how likely they are to succeed at university.

[Nic K]

James has pointed out what most of us agree in regards to VCE, but there is no easy fix in regards to our high school education system. The real learning begins at uni.

I don't agree with this at all. I think that we can fix our high school education system. It may take a while but if it was worked on over time, we can achieve a strong, world class education system. It may be difficult but I have no doubt that it can be done.

Not to mention, the real learning has been occurring fromt he word go. I don't think we can say at all that what we have been learning all throughout school is not 'real' learning. It's just a case our our education becoming more and more sophisticated as we get older.

[Glockmeister]

Just like to say that this is probably one of the best threads I've seen in a while in terms of pure intellectual discussion.  Love you all for this, even if I try to argue against what you say.  :p

I reckon! Nobody is flaming each other (except one instance), and everybody is talking so intelligently, makes me so proud >< LMAO

Yeah, we haven't had this quality of argument in ages...

As I should note though, even the United States has exams that roughly matches what gets done here in Australia. It's called the APs or Advanced Placements, and while it's not required for entry into university technically, you'd probably want to do so if you want to get into a university that's worth mentioning.

See http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/about.html

[Tashi]

Just like to say that this is probably one of the best threads I've seen in a while in terms of pure intellectual discussion.  Love you all for this, even if I try to argue against what you say.  :p

I reckon! Nobody is flaming each other (except one instance), and everybody is talking so intelligently, makes me so proud >< LMAO

Yeah, we haven't had this quality of argument in ages...

As I should note though, even the United States has exams that roughly matches what gets done here in Australia. It's called the APs or Advanced Placements, and while it's not required for entry into university technically, you'd probably want to do so if you want to get into a university that's worth mentioning.

See http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/about.html

Oh yeah I've heard of them. Who here wants to go to a US university? They're soooo expensive! No wonder parents there have "college funds".

[midas_touch]

James has pointed out what most of us agree in regards to VCE, but there is no easy fix in regards to our high school education system. The real learning begins at uni.

I don't agree with this at all. I think that we can fix our high school education system. It may take a while but if it was worked on over time, we can achieve a strong, world class education system. It may be difficult but I have no doubt that it can be done.

Not to mention, the real learning has been occurring fromt he word go. I don't think we can say at all that what we have been learning all throughout school is not 'real' learning. It's just a case our our education becoming more and more sophisticated as we get older.

I never said that it is irrepairable.

[Nic K]

Sorry, I read it wrong. My mistake