James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE

[IntoTheNewWorld]

I did Japanese to understand Anime and J-Drama, worked out ok. However, there are quite a few in my cohort that did it purely for the scaling though. My teacher likes to go on and on about how high it scales, and encourages those who are reluctant about doing LOTE and would likely fail to do it based on the fact that it does scale generously.

Pretty much all the 40+ people did it because of Anime <3

[xXNovaxX]

^

WOW, come to think of it, when I was choosing a LOTE, each time they list the "advantages" of doing a LOTE, and why you should do it is because "IT SCALES", thats been on every list.  So in fact the LOTE teachers/ schools can be blamed for putting this thoguht into peoples minds...

Because in year 7 you were forced to do a LOTE (grudge), and they kept using "high scaling" as an incentive, ratehr than the other positives of doing it.

I would have so done Jap for the anime as well  <3

[m@tty]

^

WOW, come to think of it, when I was choosing a LOTE, each time they list the "advantages" of doing a LOTE, and why you should do it is because "IT SCALES", thats been on every list.  So in fact the LOTE teachers/ schools can be blamed for putting this thought into peoples minds...

Again, the scaling is a government incentive for students to study languages in VCE. It is meant to be a major reason to do it. Hence, teachers should be pointing out the scaling.

[xXNovaxX]

I agree, however look,

It is a FACT (evidence? I don't have any, just ask an everyday year 7-12 stduent), msot people do not LIKE doing a LOTE, >>OR<< do not DO a LOTE, tehrefore Government inetrvention is necessary so taht we have a "skilled" laobur force.


All I am saying is maybe  if they pointed out some of the positives of doing a subject, not just a LOTE, absed on career opportunities, meeting new people, appreciating a culture etc.

For example I really want to do a LOTE because of the culture. Anime has MADE me want to do Japanese, my friend introduced me to anime, and now form this "discovery" I appreciate anotehr language, and want to learn it. This is also the case for Some Random Asian (ur shortening of ur name is URGH, annoying lol), and it would be the case for many more.

The current system can be attributed to that girl getting a 30 or whatever in French because of her ignorance. "Oh, but she did good in her SACs" people will say, no, she didnt, she told me herself she didnt even deserve those marks, and was nowhere near that standard, and the teacher was reknown for being easy.

[SoarBeyond]

In any case, if he believed VCE to be the source of mediocrity then he should take a look at his own subject selection.
[/quote]
Well said!
I know scaling wasn't relevant to him since he did get 50 for everything, but unless his ego is even bigger than already exemplified in his letter, he probably didn't expect to do so. Those are some of the best subjects to pick if you're going for a scaling advantage.
[/quote]

I disagree here. His subject selection clearly articulates what he was trying to say. Was he supposed to select subjects that didn't scale up just to prove his point? Everyone wants to do well, and in order to do so, the VCE system is forcing people to choose well-scaled subjects. The subjects that he has chosen may not be his best interests nor helping him at all for his future studies. But again, VCE forces him to make this selection because of the fact that he wants to get a high score (like everyone!)

[kyzoo]

If I wanted to do a LOTE purely for scaling I would have done Latin. As it is, Chinese will probably end up as my 7th subject.

But this issue about scaling past 50, it really only matters to people who are aiming for 99.95. Only the top 5% of students or less fit in this category. Thus scaling past 50 is merely a minor issue. The main issue is as James Lu puts it, "Our education system" churning out "students who are afraid to fail, afraid to go beyond syllabus requirements, and perhaps even afraid to genuinely learn."

And before anyone points it out, I know I am contradicting myself in regards to the question I posed a few pages, but my perspective totally changed today =/

[xXNovaxX]

 "Our education system" churning out "students who are afraid to fail, afraid to go beyond syllabus requirements, and perhaps even afraid to genuinely learn."

OOO, so THATS the contention.

Well, now it makes a bit more sense ><

I completely disagree here, because the MAJORITY of people, do not really care or MIND. Let me put it this way, I think every single user on this website, (fine, except 1-2%) really fall into this category that James talked about, CARE about their VCE, and learning, and doing well etc.


However, for the majority of students they dont really care.

A perfect example is VCAL people, or people who plan to go to TAFE,, I know so many people who are only doing a single TAFE course whilst juggling VCE, and therefore do no CARE about their VCE, and are merely doing it to preoccupy their time until they can start TAFE full on.

There are about 10-15 of these type of people in every school really, save for maybe inner city? I don;t know, but yeah, do you think they care in differentiating between "am I learning for myself, or am I just rote learning?"

And can I also stress this is not BAD, I am not doing a "them" versus "us".

Now, 99% of us on this site do fit into James category of people who care about their education.

I know 4 people already who scored 30-40 as their ENTER, four! And I have only asked 10 people their ENTER scores... (well 10 people told me, not me asking), these people do not even plan to go to my career adviser to work out a pathway! I was so shocked by this......their reason?

"I can't be bothered"

My reaction= o.O

Many people on this site come from private school, or inner city school, so please just think outside the box for a little here, in many public schools people are doing TAFE, VCAL, and even VCE "just to get a score and move on", not many care whether the curriculum is good or not.

Can I also say, of COURSE, many people I know want to do good, and care about exams blah blah.

Conclusion= the system is not bad people! For those who don't like the structured system of VCE, have TAFE, VCAL, VET etc.

don't hurt me

[EvangelionZeta]

What about the fact that more often than not, the way we "learn" courses is based around knowing where not to drop marks, what kind of questions will be on the exam, etc.?  Perhaps it doesn't create a race of drone-like mechanoid Anime robot students (with lasers), but the fact is that the way schools often teach VCE subjects does in fact fall in line with what James seems to be suggesting.

Just to clear things up though, I'm with Enwiabe; James' criticisms are legit, but he really needs to offer an alternative to this system which endorses "mediocrity".

[xXNovaxX]

The thing is Evangelion, my school DOES NOT do that =S

Well my teachers anyway, everyone was compalining that we are not being "reaided" for the exam and that private schools "Were ahead"

Students were planning to complain to the co-ordinator because we weren't being readied for the exam!

One of our teachers thoguh was helping about the exam since February, basing questions on exams, teasing specifically FOR the exam etc.

So tit goes both ways. But I think it's a great example where I talked about, STUDENTS wanting to be taught about the exam...whereas James Lu is saying its the other way around (i think?)

[EvangelionZeta]

The thing is Evangelion, my school DOES NOT do that =S

Well my teachers anyway, everyone was compalining that we are not being "reaided" for the exam and that private schools "Were ahead"

Students were planning to complain to the co-ordinator because we weren't being readied for the exam!

One of our teachers thoguh was helping about the exam since February, basing questions on exams, teasing specifically FOR the exam etc.

So tit goes both ways. But I think it's a great example where I talked about, STUDENTS wanting to be taught about the exam...whereas James Lu is saying its the other way around (i think?)

James Lu's point basically states that this entire process needs to be destroyed altogether; rather than worrying about the exam, students should simply worry about learning.  He disapproves of American GAT-like systems as well (I asked him about this), saying that schools will just end up teaching students how to do well in that instead.

[SoarBeyond]

I think we should have a system more like the education system in China. That way, no school would be "behind" in anyway in their ongoing studies into university. In Victoria, because your performance largely depends on how well you have been taught, many of the schools that have top notch teachers get a somewhat unfair advantage over the rest.

[IntoTheNewWorld]

All year in Japanese, all I have done in class is past exam questions, how to score high on essays, how to minimise mark loss on the oral exam, and yeah. I didn't learn anything about Japanese at all. All my learning was basically done at home. I think this is the sort of stuff that James Lu is attacking.

[Tashi]

I think a lot of people need the VCE system to encourage them to learn. The exams are something for people to work towards to and if they didn't have that kind of structure, I believe they would just fall behind and not even bother.

I agree it's good to learn outside the syllabus (I like watching interesting documentaries and some of the lectures on iTunesU are pretty good aswell) but a lot of people aren't motivated to learn outside the system. I've heard a billion times this year, "What's the point of learning this??" "When will I ever need to know this in my life". I guess getting a good ENTER gives a good reason to learn.

edit: I have no idea how relevant this is to the argument

[ninwa]

James Lu's point basically states that this entire process needs to be destroyed altogether; rather than worrying about the exam, students should simply worry about learning.  He disapproves of American GAT-like systems as well (I asked him about this), saying that schools will just end up teaching students how to do well in that instead.

But then how will assessment work? He hasn't come up with any possible solutions to... well, anything.

[EvangelionZeta]

I think we should have a system more like the education system in China. That way, no school would be "behind" in anyway in their ongoing studies into university. In Victoria, because your performance largely depends on how well you have been taught, many of the schools that have top notch teachers get a somewhat unfair advantage over the rest.

Elaborate.  How does the Chinese education system work like that?  From what I've heard (cousin just graduated in China), there are still schools that are renowned for performing better on average.

James Lu's point basically states that this entire process needs to be destroyed altogether; rather than worrying about the exam, students should simply worry about learning.  He disapproves of American GAT-like systems as well (I asked him about this), saying that schools will just end up teaching students how to do well in that instead.

But then how will assessment work? He hasn't come up with any possible solutions to... well, anything.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here; I've outlined already that my stance is alligned closest to Enwiabe's in saying that James hasn't actually offered anything as an alternative, and hence his argument is particularly weak in that respect.