Selective schools on the basis of nationality/religion

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In addition, schools based on religion (or for that matter, race) only encourage segregation, at a time when it is especially important for kids to recognise the values of egalitarianism - but in reality this is only a very slight issue.

Yes, you're right. History has shown time and again the ill effects of segregation on society and the collective psyche. Though I have often found that even in multicultural schools, more often than not there tend to be cliques based on race. This seems to be even more evidence in university - it's very common to see large groups of Asian students congregating together, for example. I guess that's an attitude which should be tackled at a secondary school level (I've noted that these 'cliques' don't so much exist in primary school).

But could you elaborate on the "slight issue in reality" point?

Oh well, I might be underestimating it, but I reckon most people who go to religious schools turn out socially fine in the end... well at least in Australia

[vexx]

Yea, I wonder why Jewish schools are one of the best schools? Like heaps of them are in the top 10? Is it just because their cohort is small and is easy to do well or something?

jewish schools probably do really well for a mix of reasons, that include the schools get a lot of funding from parents as they are very expensive per year and they use it to give students very decent tutoring/resources. a lot of the jewish parents are quite pushy and want their children to do really well, a lot like some asian parents i hear about all the time.

[TrueLight]

This seems to be even more evidence in university - it's very common to see large groups of Asian students congregating together, for example.

yep monash has heaps of those groups

[mark_alec]

Yes, you're right. History has shown time and again the ill effects of segregation on society and the collective psyche

Care to provide some examples?

[ninwa]

America?

[enwiabe]

Yes, you're right. History has shown time and again the ill effects of segregation on society and the collective psyche

Care to provide some examples?

Apartheid South Africa

:-/

[mark_alec]

America?

How about when the segregation was voluntary (as in, choosing to go to a school of your own religious following), not when society excludes you from mixing with others.

[ninwa]

America?

How about when the segregation was voluntary (as in, choosing to go to a school of your own religious following), not when society excludes you from mixing with others.

I would've thought that the majority of those decisions were made by the parents rather than the child?

[mark_alec]

America?

How about when the segregation was voluntary (as in, choosing to go to a school of your own religious following), not when society excludes you from mixing with others.

I would've thought that the majority of those decisions were made by the parents rather than the child?

Yes, but the parent was free to choose, not forced into a 'black' school because they weren't allowed at the white one.

[ninwa]

But isn't that the case with religious schools? You're not allowed at them unless you subscribe to their religion? Is voluntary segregation any better than non-voluntary? (in terms of integrating into society, etc.)

I'm actually on the fence about this, so I'm really interested in your thoughts.

[xXNovaxX]

I hope you don't mind me posting this link on here Ninwa >< I was going to start a new thread on its own, but I think this directly links with this thread


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/all-kids-must-read-the-bible-federal-opposition-leader-tony-abbott-says/story-e6frf7l6-1225811885777

Tony Abbot reckons every student here should READ the Bible....

I find that ridicolous, YES we live in a predominatly Christain country, and I rspect that 100%, but I will never respect the need to FORCE people to read the holy book of a religion.

Like, I'm not being "stubborn", I will glady accept having to have an UNDERTSANDING of Christains, Islam, Judiausm etc, but yeah reading the book is way over the top.

If he is arguing we read it so we are aware of Christain "values".....a lot of these values, well dare  I say 99% of them EXIST in Islam and Judaism....you don't see the aforementioned religious leaders saying "all kids should read the Quran, or the Jewish text (I don't know the name ><)

So yeah....I think if people NEEDED to read Bibles, they can choose to go to Christian Schools which practially exist in every suburb or 2.

[xXNovaxX]

I don't understand why they are necessary. If you want to be religious you can go to church. Schools should be a secular environment for learning.
The main point here is that school and church should be separate.

I like this point you make!

I am going to sound so stupid, but I have NEVER considered this point you make.. YEAH, Churches, Mosques etc DO exist.....no reason to learn about religion AT school and OUT, and if you really want to learn, go to those places of worship everyday or something...

Yea, I wonder why Jewish schools are one of the best schools? Like heaps of them are in the top 10? Is it just because their cohort is small and is easy to do well or something?

You are generalising ><

HOWEVER, Jewish people are generally smarter because they have excellent parents, and tradition which values education...just like in GENERAL Chinese parents are like, or Indians, or Japanese, and even many Middle Eastern ones (lol, though not as clear over here ><). There parents want their sons/daughters to grow up and have a good career, etc and so value education.

[jejak]

HOWEVER, Jewish people are generally smarter because they have excellent parents, and tradition which values education...just like in GENERAL Chinese parents are like, or Indians, or Japanese, and even many Middle Eastern ones (lol, though not as clear over here ><). There parents want their sons/daughters to grow up and have a good career, etc and so value education.

Generally I agree with this point, that the primary difference for Jewish academic success is a cultural one. It's common knowledge that Jewish culture greatly prizes learning for its own sake, and intellectual achievement - look at the importance even these days of learning Hebrew and Torah. So parents are going to emphasise the importance of academic success to their children; teaching standards at Jewish schools are perhaps going to be higher, as both the teacher and the students are engaged etc etc.

It is interesting to note, however, that some studies posit that Ashkenazi Jews (meaning Jews who are of European background) have objectively higher IQ in some areas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_intelligence). The theory is that Jews have been subject to a selective pressure that favours intelligence, due to years and years of persecution in Europe. I personally don't subscribe to the whole "your worth as a human being is determined entirely by genetics" thing - and again, even the belief that IQ measures an objective "intelligence" is always open to debate. Still, its another example of the nature-vs-nurture question, which for me is perhaps the most interesting question of all.

I don't see how similar selective pressures to the ones that account for Ashkenazi intelligence could really be said to exist in the case of other stereotyped "smart races" (East Asian or South Asian people) - so largely I think the whole race/nature idea is bogus. And the idea of differentiating between people on race is one that is really morally and spiritually repugnant to me. So please don't get the wrong idea - just responding to the poster above!

Anyway, back on topic!

[brightsky]

Haha, a school full of Asians...how longing...

[kyzoo]

Lolz asians are just as smart or dumb as other races.