Logic or "straight" Philosophy?

[bubble sunglasses]

  i know it's up to me to decide, but does anyone have an opinion on the relative merits of doing Logic as opposed to Philosophy or vice-versa? [The units I can choose for next semester are below if ur interested]
   



BEGINNING LOGIC
Unit Description:   In this unit students are introduced to logic, which includes basic concepts (arguments, deduction, validity) categorical propositions and syllogisms and the symbols of propositional and predicate logic. We use truth-tables to determine the validity of arguments in propositional logic and the finite universe method to test for invalidity in predicate logic. Students will also be introduced to some elementary natural deduction for propositional logic.

BIOLOGY AND PHILOSOPHY
Credit Points:   15.0
Unit Description:   Over most of history, nothing could be seen of what happened between sex and childbirth. Does all reproduction involve two sexes? How did knowledge about all this develop? In this unit we study these and connected questions, from early myths to the time of Darwin. We also consider what counts as science, through the ideas of Karl Popper, Imre Lakatos and Thomas Kuhn. We study how over a long time what we now see as sound scientific theory, argument and methodology developed together, and how fallible are the best guesses of any given epoch. This unit forms a solid introduction to philosophy in general and to the history and philosophy of science in particular. No prior scientific study is presupposed.

EXISTENCE, VALUE AND GOD

Unit Description:   Dostoevsky famously wrote: ?If God does not exist, then everything is permitted?. What are we to make of this? Jean-Paul Sartre stated that we are abandoned in the sense that there is no God to tell us what to do. Humans create their own sense of right and wrong through their actions, through exercising an inherent freedom. Some ethical theories would dispute this, suggesting that notions of right and wrong have an objective status independent of individuals? upbringing or cultural background. Can we even ask these questions without determining whether there is a God who oversees issues of right and wrong, good and evil? This Unit will progress from questions of life and freedom, towards ethical responsibility, and the ultimate issue of whether or not God exists.

[Mao]

this is my opinion:

Logic:
unless you are REALLY into it, it'll just be dry and boring.
it'll be useful to know the different arguments, but real-life applications are really no more than brendan-in-debate mode. [sorry brendan ]

as for the rest, it really depends on what you like.
but I personally find philosophy of science very boring [its mainly all just history]

of all things in philosophy, I personally find metaphysics most enjoyable, it is challenging, fun, and deals with issues and options you dont often consider. real life application? not a lot, but it does allow you to think outside the square a bit, especially when you learn moral relativism.
and the existence of God? best topic ever
it'll be even a bigger bonus if you do epistemology and the whole existence thing

but that's me, you should do whatever you find most interesting, however, i must say that comes to writing [as assessment], the last unit will have the most material for you to use, it also allows yoou to draw crazy analogies [always fun~]

so pick the last one

[bubble sunglasses]

 thx Mao, i value your opinion, as you've done philosophy

 I thought logic would be good as there'd be less reading and more just thinking and debating but the last one sounds good as well. I'll check out some of the material

[cara.mel]

Maomao, you have to teach me how to learn this stuff by yourself. It looks so sexy. But I don't know where to start. I know nothing

Hell, my year level couldn't even fill up a year 10 class for it as a semester elective (and subjects run with hardly anyone in them at my school, eg 10 is good), let alone vce level

[bubble sunglasses]

 Yeah, a yr 11 [English eqivalent] class in Critical Thinking I signed up for was scrapped after 2 classes because we only had 5 participants.  The 1st class was 
basically about debating, the 2nd was like a legal moot. It would've been one of my favourite classes in my school life 

[Glockmeister]

Maomao, you have to teach me how to learn this stuff by yourself. It looks so sexy. But I don't know where to start. I know nothing

Hell, my year level couldn't even fill up a year 10 class for it as a semester elective (and subjects run with hardly anyone in them at my school, eg 10 is good), let alone vce level

I've got a Philosophy text that I used when I did Philosophy 1&2 a few years back. You can borrow it if you like.

And Mao: I liked Philosophy of Science actually. Helps provide a justification for the science subjects that I'm studying now.

[cara.mel]

Maomao, you have to teach me how to learn this stuff by yourself. It looks so sexy. But I don't know where to start. I know nothing

Hell, my year level couldn't even fill up a year 10 class for it as a semester elective (and subjects run with hardly anyone in them at my school, eg 10 is good), let alone vce level

I've got a Philosophy text that I used when I did Philosophy 1&2 a few years back. You can borrow it if you like.

And Mao: I liked Philosophy of Science actually. Helps provide a justification for the science subjects that I'm studying now.

Can I go and steal it right now? I know where you live...

[Mao]

Maomao, you have to teach me how to learn this stuff by yourself. It looks so sexy. But I don't know where to start. I know nothing

Hell, my year level couldn't even fill up a year 10 class for it as a semester elective (and subjects run with hardly anyone in them at my school, eg 10 is good), let alone vce level

I've got a Philosophy text that I used when I did Philosophy 1&2 a few years back. You can borrow it if you like.

And Mao: I liked Philosophy of Science actually. Helps provide a justification for the science subjects that I'm studying now.

Can I go and steal it right now? I know where you live...

philosophy texts are bunch of crap [the real texts are those by actual philosophers, which no one understands unless you are superman]
they are a lot funner if someone TEACHES you them. talking is the greatest pleasure [and pain] of a philosopher

[Mao]

 thx Mao, i value your opinion, as you've done philosophy

 I thought logic would be good as there'd be less reading and more just thinking and debating but the last one sounds good as well. I'll check out some of the material

logic [especially in philosophy] is not logical reasoning as we know. this is analytical logic, with symbols and etc
a typical example [well, a bit extreme] is Godel's ontological proof of God with symbols:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof#The_proof




you wont learn this kind of stuff for introductory logic [though you'll do the basics], but its [to me] an imcomprehensible bunch of jibberish that may or may not be any use if you are an absolute psychopath

[cara.mel]

Maomao, you have to teach me how to learn this stuff by yourself. It looks so sexy. But I don't know where to start. I know nothing

Hell, my year level couldn't even fill up a year 10 class for it as a semester elective (and subjects run with hardly anyone in them at my school, eg 10 is good), let alone vce level

I've got a Philosophy text that I used when I did Philosophy 1&2 a few years back. You can borrow it if you like.

And Mao: I liked Philosophy of Science actually. Helps provide a justification for the science subjects that I'm studying now.

Can I go and steal it right now? I know where you live...

philosophy texts are bunch of crap [the real texts are those by actual philosophers, which no one understands unless you are superman]
they are a lot funner if someone TEACHES you them. talking is the greatest pleasure [and pain] of a philosopher

then how can i learn then. =(

[Mao]

Maomao, you have to teach me how to learn this stuff by yourself. It looks so sexy. But I don't know where to start. I know nothing

Hell, my year level couldn't even fill up a year 10 class for it as a semester elective (and subjects run with hardly anyone in them at my school, eg 10 is good), let alone vce level

I've got a Philosophy text that I used when I did Philosophy 1&2 a few years back. You can borrow it if you like.

And Mao: I liked Philosophy of Science actually. Helps provide a justification for the science subjects that I'm studying now.

Can I go and steal it right now? I know where you live...

philosophy texts are bunch of crap [the real texts are those by actual philosophers, which no one understands unless you are superman]
they are a lot funner if someone TEACHES you them. talking is the greatest pleasure [and pain] of a philosopher

then how can i learn then. =(

join in on conversations

debates/discussions are great for learning these stuff.

there is a couple primer books you can get, like "the philosophy gym" by -cannot remember name-, they are introductory.
but philosophy "texts" are just, ewww

[cara.mel]

But IRC makes no sense because you're all jerks that go 'lol mel' when I talk.

* caramel goes back to physics

[cara.mel]

help.
give me web site or some thing.

[Mao]

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Gym-Short-Adventures-Thinking/dp/0312314523
look for that book =]

[brendan]

lol me in debate mode
whats that