Letter in today's Age.

[iamdan08]

Solution: abolish SACS, and instead have 3(?) external exams per subject. That way everything is external, and everyone has an equal chance of performing well.

[Darren]

I'm sorry but that would be nasty and excessively strenuous. People crumble under the strictness of ONE exam (Like Me), and for some a classroom setting which isn't as formal is more comfortable and maximises performance.

[iamdan08]

I'm sorry but that would be nasty and excessively strenuous. People crumble under the strictness of ONE exam (Like Me), and for some a classroom setting which isn't as formal is more comfortable and maximises performance.

Yeah I can see your point, but I guess this is the crux of the argument. Should we reward students who may have slightly out performed their peers during the year (even if it is only just) but can't maintain the same marks during the exam, thereby potentially having significant effects on the lower ranked students study score as a result? Their can definitely be arguments made for both cases.

[Andiio]

Solution: Have a state-wide standard SAC? Or standard variations of each SAC made by VCAA

[WonderBunny]

I do humanities subjects and I wouldn't mind having 2 exams for each subject as well as SACs. A midyear exam might take some of the pressure off for the end of year exam. If the study score came from 1/3 SAC marks, 1/3 1st exam and 1/3 2nd exam it might be a little fairer.

[nacho]

Solution: Have a state-wide standard SAC? Or standard variations of each SAC made by VCAA

No, you just can't have a state-wide 'school assessed coursework' (or w/e it stands for)
If you want the same SACs for each school, then they'd practically have to be exams..
Think about it, everyone in the state would have to sit their SACs on the exact same day AND time for this too work
It's way too much pressure, the amount of exams you do for all your subjects now would become the amount of exams you do for one subject (sacs = exams) if you implement this.
If you take a look into the VCAA system, it's probably the most fair it can be, people just don't know it very well, and i think schools should started raising awareness.
Seriously, some people just think VCAA are stupid and yet they have no idea how VCAA itself works.
There's a reason they're the head of high-school education, they aren't some drop-kick duds
(although, it's disappointing to see the mistakes on actual exams they made)

[m@tty]

^
So you think that the system is the "most fair it can be" when a difference of 1% in internal SAC average can translate to a 20% difference in the moderated score? In fact, it could be even higher than this, if there were a larger difference in ability of students.

[Andiio]

^
So you think that the system is the "most fair it can be" when a difference of 1% in internal SAC average can translate to a 20% difference in the moderated score? In fact, it could be even higher than this, if there were a larger difference in ability of students.

Bad luck matty, they really have to fix this SAC bs.

[nacho]

^
So you think that the system is the "most fair it can be" when a difference of 1% in internal SAC average can translate to a 20% difference in the moderated score? In fact, it could be even higher than this, if there were a larger difference in ability of students.

Yes, I do.
Why should the VCAA even look at what grades your teachers give you? They don't care about your grades, it's about your rank. I go to Rowville Secondary College, compare my SACs to a school like Melbourne High, which school's SAC do you think are going to be harder? Is it fair that a below average student can have a SAC average of A+ (97%) at a crappy school whilst a top-end student can have a SAC average of B+ (84%) at a highly-ranked school and then VCAA to keep it this way? Of course not. You know what? I ended up getting a moderated A for my SAC, whilst my incompetent teacher originally gave me mid B's (this is for IT btw). If
VCAA were to keep these SAC scores and not moderate them accordingly to my exam, i would have an even lower SS. If each school is to have different SACs, each teacher to mark differently, then VCAA's only way to even things out is to moderate SACs accordingly to exam scores..

Also, im sick and tired of all the nubs on the age complaining about how private schools and selective schools will always be better off..
The reason that they get higher ATARs than other schools is primarily because the students WANT to get high ATARs.
Kids at my school simply say 'I just want to pass'- What does that even mean?  or get a 70 and sometimes get an 80..
 

[m@tty]

Did you even read my previous post? xD

I agree that the moderation IS necessary. But what I am talking about is in the same school, first rank is on 96%, another is on 95%. Come exam time rank 1 gets a LOW mark, say a B+, while rank 2 maintains an A+ score. Is it fair that rank 1 receives an A+ for their moderated SAC mark while rank 2 gets the B+? (I know it does not work EXACTLY this way, but it is a good approximation)

IE. Is it fair that a difference of 1% in SAC average can translate to a 20% difference in the moderated SAC score?

[nacho]

Did you even read my previous post? xD

I agree that the moderation IS necessary. But what I am talking about is in the same school, first rank is on 96%, another is on 95%. Come exam time rank 1 gets a LOW mark, say a B+, while rank 2 maintains an A+ score. Is it fair that rank 1 receives an A+ for their moderated SAC mark while rank 2 gets the B+? (I know it does not work EXACTLY this way, but it is a good approximation)

IE. Is it fair that a difference of 1% in SAC average can translate to a 20% difference in the moderated SAC score?

Hm, sorry I guess i didn't completely understand what you were trying to say.
Does that actually happen?
I was rank 4 (weak weak weak cohort of 8 people), and scored the highest/second highest on the exam, pulled out a 39, SACs moderated to A.
Rank 1 pulled out a 42.
I'm confident when i say that the 4th highest exam score was AT MOST a B+, so i'm not quite sure if it works out roughly the way you say it does? Rank 2 in your case, should still have gotten A-A+ for their moderated SAC scores

[m@tty]

Nup, I was this rank 2. And I definitely got B+ for SACs, even though I got A and A+ for the exams.

[nacho]

Nup, I was this rank 2. And I definitely got B+ for SACs, even though I got A and A+ for the exams.

Interesting, do you know what kind of A's they were?
(Low A, Low A+, or..)
And did rank 1 happen to get the second highest exam score, and you the highest?

[eeps]

Is it fair that a difference of 1% in SAC average can translate to a 20% difference in the moderated SAC score?

No, obviously it's not fair.

Also, im sick and tired of all the nubs on the age complaining about how private schools and selective schools will always be better off..
The reason that they get higher ATARs than other schools is primarily because the students WANT to get high ATARs.
Kids at my school simply say 'I just want to pass'- What does that even mean?  or get a 70 and sometimes get an 80..

I don't think you can compare selective schools like MHS and Mac.Rob to any other schools. They intake students primarily on the basis of academic abilities (passing their exam or whatever). They are always going to be near the top when it comes to academic results each year, that's fact. As you point out, it's more about the attitude of students - students who want to do well and have set goals, tend to do exactly that - do well.

I knew someone who got 98.XX at a so-called "crap" school in the western suburbs. If you work hard and put in the effort (maintain rank 1), anything is possible.

I do realise I've diverted the topic of discussion - I just thought I'd mention that.

Continue on.

[Greatness]

It's hard to maintain Rank 1 if you have a teacher who marks quite harshly compared to others, as well as teachers favouring other students I Only got full marks for bio once, and there were other teachers handing out full marks like lollies.... I even compared my sacs to other students who got full marks and id say most of mine were better...