A New System Required?

[Pixon]

For what it's worth, I have a cousin in America, I asked him if he would have any chance of going to Harvard. He said, "Don't be stupid, I'm from a poor area of America."

NB: He goes to Uni of Berkeley, so that's still pretty prestigious...

Are you saying that your cousin is being discriminated against because he comes from a poor area or that he can't afford to go to such a uni?

[aznboy50]

The latter. He said, basically, if your not given a private education and if you don't row for prestigious high schools,other stuff like that,  you have no chance for Harvard.

[pi]

For what it's worth, I have a cousin in America, I asked him if he would have any chance of going to Harvard. He said, "Don't be stupid, I'm from a poor area of America."

NB: He goes to Uni of Berkeley, so that's still pretty prestigious...

Are you saying that your cousin is being discriminated against because he comes from a poor area or that he can't afford to go to such a uni?

Doubt discrimination is the reason, there are many poor areas in America (every city has one!).

The problem with Harvard (as supposed to Monash or Deakin for example) is that is is one of the top unis in the world is is sought after by far more international full-fee paying students (similar to many of the Ivy League). Hence, more pressure is put on local students for admission.

But undoubtedly, money always helps. But even without it, things are still possible.

[WonderBunny]

There are a lot of people who are disadvantaged, but not quite disadvantaged enough to get scholarships or special entry. I like that if I get a high enough ATAR I won't need to use any special entry schemes to get into Uni here. They just look at the number. I don't think that a house captain and sporting legend with XX.XX ATAR is going to be a better Uni student than a person with the same ATAR who isn't. It's nice to be well rounded, talented in many areas and community minded etc., I just don't think it's relevant to academic success or someone's right to access further study.

[Pixon]

The latter. He said, basically, if your not given a private education and if you don't row for prestigious high schools,other stuff like that,  you have no chance for Harvard.

Well it's hard to scrutinise the cost because it is such a prestigious university. And that's the situation for most of the leading institutions, even high schools within Victoria. Fortunately, if you are extremely successful in a some area, scholarships will be awarded.

@Rohitpi: I don't think you can call it a "problem" because as a university, it is still a business and even then, those international students are still some of the best students in the world; the pressure is justified and the reward of graduating from such a university is worth such pressure and hard work.

[Russ]

Are you saying that your cousin is being discriminated against because he comes from a poor area or that he can't afford to go to such a uni?

There are two ways to get into Harvard:

1. Be absolutely brilliant (eg Zuckerberg)
2. $$$

[Cianyx]

I think I'm missing something out here considering that everyone is able to reply so can you (or anyone) please explain your idea out to me. I haven't a clue what you are saying.

[pi]

@Rohitpi: I don't think you can call it a "problem" because as a university, it is still a business and even then, those international students are still some of the best students in the world; the pressure is justified and the reward of graduating from such a university is worth such pressure and hard work.

That's what I meant, 'problem' was in reference to aznboy50's cousin's 'dilemma' (can't think of a better word here...), not a problem with the uni, which is, as you rightly said, a business after all.

Are you saying that your cousin is being discriminated against because he comes from a poor area or that he can't afford to go to such a uni?

There are two ways to get into Harvard:

1. Be absolutely brilliant (eg Zuckerberg)
2. $$$

True

[echenzi]

I like the UK system.

[aznboy50]

Grass greener other side.

[lexitu]

I like the UK system.

What's the UK system?

[Ghost!]

I like the UK system.

+1

[Eriny]

I honestly doubt that the US system is any better than ours.

Although it may seem like a more well-rounded to be basing entrance to university on extra-curricular activities, but doing so has a much more complex impact on equity than what many people here are suggesting. For one thing, it's fair enough IMO for a university to be looking at your transcript and then assessing your intelligence. It's not without problems and we all know that top performers at high school may not necessarily be top performers at university, but it makes some degree of sense. But unless your extra-curricular activities are closely related to your career goals or your degree, how is it a relevant consideration when assessing your propensity to graduate with your degree, get decent grades and go into a career? (These are the things universities are really assessing applicants on)

Moreover, how can your entire life and all the things you've ever done be adequately assessed and ranked by admissions officers? Even if you could unproblematically say 'your set of experiences is superior to someone else's set of experiences', I believe that assessing people this way puts a bias towards people who have had the opportunity and the money to participate in extra-curricular activities in the first place - not every family can afford expensive fees for rowing lessons or musical instruments and such. Those applicants would potentially be inadvertently discriminated against on the basis that they couldn't do that wide range of activities.

Don't get me wrong, admitting people on the basis of academics alone isn't ideal either, but I think it's better than the alternative of making students not just freak out about exams but also about the worthiness of their entire lives.

[WonderBunny]

This^^^

[Cianyx]

The UK system is just about the worst around right now