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July 27, 2025, 09:52:38 pm

Author Topic: A New System Required?  (Read 12997 times)  Share 

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pi

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2011, 08:21:04 pm »
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The UK system is just about the worst around right now  ;D

At least we can account for weather conditions ;)

Cianyx

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2011, 08:29:00 pm »
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Wait, are we talking about their unis?

pi

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2011, 08:35:00 pm »
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Wait, are we talking about their unis?

Yes, I just added a random comment in reference to closure of schools due to weather, an advantage we have over them.

Carry on

schmalex

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2011, 08:44:09 pm »
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you could easily say if you don't perform well enough in Y7-10 then your not getting into the 97+ category which actually makes Y7-10 very important.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I got average marks 7-10 with the exception of year 9 and I got 98.95. I was told by numerous teachers that I wasn't going to do well in VCE, and I did better than any of the other students at my school, so I definitely think that that's incorrect.

And I don't think that this is unfair because the work was mostly stupid and the teachers were idiots, most of whom hated me. I think that my VCE results showed that these teachers were shallow in their judgements of me and had ridiculous ways of assessing students. And even if I couldn't be bothered in years 7-10, what difference does it make? I had good enough skils to do well in the subjects I studied in VCE, and the subjects I didn't study in VCE I'm unlikely to need in the future anyway.
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nacho

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2011, 08:52:58 pm »
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VCE.
Victorian Certificate of Education.
Ah, the nerds that crawl this forum, the unbelievable median that is produced, the 99.95-ers busting it out.
In light of the thread VCE for Dummies a thought sparked my mind, encapsulating it with vigourous energy ::)

Should there be three separate tiers of VCE?

One for the 98 + (as half the forum says anything over 45 is luck)
One for the 30 - 97
One for the <30

How would this work? Based on results from Year 7 to 10 with teacher contribution which would also give value to these years of education.

Discuss.

What do you believe lacks in the VCE system? I skimmed the article, and it was really stupid as it proposed that VCE does not cater for the minority of people who are special in their own way (of who'm i've never really heard of)
The VCE in my opinion, is the most fairest system one could come up with.
There are limited seats in courses, each course has a certain cut-off mark, and one must achieve a cut off mark and out-rank their peers to obtain the seat. So, VCE is a competition, the ones that study, make the cut-off marks and meet the pre-reqs are accepted.
If you're talking about exam styles, then I can agree to some extent.
For example, when the VCAA make mistakes on the exam (which wasn't rare in 2010) then they've jeopardized many students, you simply can't "Predict" one's score etc.
I think VCE should remain, but it needs improvements in organisation and management.
It's hard to cater for everyone though.
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pi

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2011, 08:55:43 pm »
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Nacho, this:


Quote
@Slumdawg: Very true. Bias is a massive flaw. Conclusion: this system fails

Okay...you guys went a bit overboard...but yes it does fail ;D



iNerd's case got owned. badly.

iNerd

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2011, 09:04:18 pm »
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Nacho, this:


Quote
@Slumdawg: Very true. Bias is a massive flaw. Conclusion: this system fails

Okay...you guys went a bit overboard...but yes it does fail ;D



iNerd's case got owned. badly.

It wasn't a case. It was a pondering question followed by 'discuss'. Obviously your English skills aren't top-notch.

Cianyx

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2011, 09:05:09 pm »
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Okay, let's discuss. Regarding your top three tiers of VCE, would the standard of education be the same for all of them?

iNerd

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2011, 09:06:00 pm »
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Okay, let's discuss. Regarding your top three tiers of VCE, would the standard of education be the same for all of them?
Facepalm. I have already conceded this fails, why the continuation of this thread? I haven't thought that far ahead but if you think about it you could made the last tier ( <30 ) not have certain subjects such as specialist making spesh back to what it once was, just for the elite. Could also tell the top tier to not take Further and restore Further scaling to something reasonable, giving the bottom 2 tiers a chance.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 09:07:33 pm by iNerd »

iffets12345

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2011, 09:19:15 pm »
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Okay, let's discuss. Regarding your top three tiers of VCE, would the standard of education be the same for all of them?
Facepalm. I have already conceded this fails, why the continuation of this thread? I haven't thought that far ahead but if you think about it you could made the last tier ( <30 ) not have certain subjects such as specialist making spesh back to what it once was, just for the elite. Could also tell the top tier to not take Further and restore Further scaling to something reasonable, giving the bottom 2 tiers a chance.
Just simply glancing it seems horrible. Not only from an educational standpoint but think about socially how we'll all judge each other based on what tier and just like segregate each other by looking down on the bottom tier and fighting to be in the elusive top tier.

And when you say "just for the elite" you run the risk of sounding like an elitist.....
We all joke from time to time about how gay spesh scaling is but you shouldn't think that each subject DESERVES a certain scaling. It's just whatever happens to the cohort in that particular year and how people perform which adjust the scaling. And why do the bottom 2 tiers need a chance in the way you imply? If they worked hard they could still get good marks in further. It's completely irrelevant to how others are involved in the cohort. I mean, sure, to get 50 or 49 you gotta lose virtually no marks but then think, if we remove the top tier, we will reward your hypothetical "bottom tier" with 50s when they say, lose 5-7 marks in the exam..... The standards would simply change...
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iNerd

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2011, 09:31:18 pm »
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Okay, let's discuss. Regarding your top three tiers of VCE, would the standard of education be the same for all of them?
Facepalm. I have already conceded this fails, why the continuation of this thread? I haven't thought that far ahead but if you think about it you could made the last tier ( <30 ) not have certain subjects such as specialist making spesh back to what it once was, just for the elite. Could also tell the top tier to not take Further and restore Further scaling to something reasonable, giving the bottom 2 tiers a chance.
Just simply glancing it seems horrible. Not only from an educational standpoint but think about socially how we'll all judge each other based on what tier and just like segregate each other by looking down on the bottom tier and fighting to be in the elusive top tier.

And when you say "just for the elite" you run the risk of sounding like an elitist.....
We all joke from time to time about how gay spesh scaling is but you shouldn't think that each subject DESERVES a certain scaling. It's just whatever happens to the cohort in that particular year and how people perform which adjust the scaling. And why do the bottom 2 tiers need a chance in the way you imply? If they worked hard they could still get good marks in further. It's completely irrelevant to how others are involved in the cohort. I mean, sure, to get 50 or 49 you gotta lose virtually no marks but then think, if we remove the top tier, we will reward your hypothetical "bottom tier" with 50s when they say, lose 5-7 marks in the exam..... The standards would simply change...
And, uh, segregation isn't present now with 'select entry' schools? And please, wrong implication, I'm no elitist. Fails, I agree, Discussion closed.

EvangelionZeta

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2011, 09:40:49 pm »
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Okay, let's discuss. Regarding your top three tiers of VCE, would the standard of education be the same for all of them?
Facepalm. I have already conceded this fails, why the continuation of this thread? I haven't thought that far ahead but if you think about it you could made the last tier ( <30 ) not have certain subjects such as specialist making spesh back to what it once was, just for the elite. Could also tell the top tier to not take Further and restore Further scaling to something reasonable, giving the bottom 2 tiers a chance.
Just simply glancing it seems horrible. Not only from an educational standpoint but think about socially how we'll all judge each other based on what tier and just like segregate each other by looking down on the bottom tier and fighting to be in the elusive top tier.

And when you say "just for the elite" you run the risk of sounding like an elitist.....
We all joke from time to time about how gay spesh scaling is but you shouldn't think that each subject DESERVES a certain scaling. It's just whatever happens to the cohort in that particular year and how people perform which adjust the scaling. And why do the bottom 2 tiers need a chance in the way you imply? If they worked hard they could still get good marks in further. It's completely irrelevant to how others are involved in the cohort. I mean, sure, to get 50 or 49 you gotta lose virtually no marks but then think, if we remove the top tier, we will reward your hypothetical "bottom tier" with 50s when they say, lose 5-7 marks in the exam..... The standards would simply change...
And, uh, segregation isn't present now with 'select entry' schools? And please, wrong implication, I'm no elitist. Fails, I agree, Discussion closed.

There's a difference between segregation between entire schools (who are still in the same system anyway, and who aren't really treated any differently in regards to what they can do in the future) and segregation within the same school, where people will actually be levelled above one another. 
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Cianyx

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2011, 09:42:27 pm »
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Yawn, I'm going to type out what I think the system should be, feel free to criticised. It will be up in a sec

lexitu

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2011, 09:46:25 pm »
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Yeah, as EZ said, there is a big difference.

Will be interested to see your thoughts Clanyx :)

IMO, it shouldn't be locked, this is deadly on topic and it's a valuable discussion. Of course, no one is obliged to participate.

Cianyx

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Re: A New System Required?
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2011, 11:13:12 pm »
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This was done in one sitting so it will have a lot of premature/stupid ideas as well as grammatical errors.


Overall structure
A report card system would be made necessary in all schools as the testing system would be dropped in favour of a more rigorous personality assessment. The quality of reports would be one of the main deciding factors in choosing teachers. Teachers would be required to note down apparent behaviour of the student, interests, etc. Stuff teachers are doing right now except without the copy and paste and they are required to go even more in-depth. The teachers would then submit these to parents and the school, and the school will make a decision on the course for the child. IMO, a proper staff board should be required for this. From years 7-10 (might be more or less depending on the level of education provided (hence, a statewide criteria might be needed)), students would be under this system. Beyond that, students would be separated into three different fields based on their traits. The first, would be similar to our current TAFE system, where students are taught practical skills for trades and schooling life ends for them there. Their years at school will then be to teach them the bear necessities of life. They would also enter the workforce at an earlier age. Students in the first group would usually show a distaste for academical work, interest in practical work, largely extroverted etc. The second tier, I imagine, would constitute the slight majority of students. This group would overlap with the third tier but we'll get to that later. A lot of specialised service jobs (accountants, psychiatrists, road planners etc.) would fall under this category. Students who complete the minimum of work, largely obedient, shows some degree of foresight and others would put them under this category. The final category is one for those geniuses I am sure we are all familiar with. The final category is designed to be a primarily research group but it does overlap with the former. Geniuses are not bound to be in the third group, but are greatly encouraged.

Basic education
As I said, grading would be abolished, so the teaching system should be re-modelled to reflect that. Schools shall still retain their curriculum and a wide as possible range of subjects should be taught. Essentially the same as the current system. The method in which teaching occurs should be less dictatorial (eg. less of THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW). The replacing method still requires some fine tuning in my mind so I can't give an alternative just yet. Since grading is removed, there shall be no tests or exams but school work and assignments would still remain and it will be marked. Students are under absolutely no obligations to do the work; severely encouraged but not obliged. I think a very important point is to be made here. One may point out that most students wouldn't do their work under this system but remember, the entire system is being re-structured. School work needs to depart from its traditional form of copying the textbook. When students are not expected to treat homework as another chore, rather an educational tool, there is no saying what they would or would not do. Either way, if they choose not to do it, it shows that they do not enjoy academical work and it would be noted down. Besides that, the work provided by the teachers should also be specific to the students. If one finds the standard course easy, perhaps encourage more personal study, challenge the student. The reports of behaviour would then be gathered and used to decide on the child's career path. For the most part, it is quite simple. If he/she excels in math, put them in a math area. Easy. At that point, a lot of students would have a general idea of what they are into.

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FAQ
1. There is a chance that schools (or teachers) may be dishonest in their card system
Absolutely. However, the card system, which can be traced back to the schools, keep the schools (and therefore the teachers) completely accountable for the student. Students who do not fair well in future education would reflect on the school and it would be completely in the best interest of the school to be honest.
2. Are students bound by the school's recommendation.
No, they are not. However, I expect schools to be competent enough to notice any latent behaviour within the 4 years of their schooling life. Students are free to ignore recommendations and do whatever. However, if they are mistaken they would be wasting their time. So, it's in the best interests of everyone to follow it.
3. Wouldn't students be under pressure to 'perform' constantly?
Consider how teachers evaluate your performance right now. It will most definitely be a subtle process and students shouldn't be concerned at all.



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« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 11:16:32 pm by Cianyx »