Has anyone had this kind of upbringing?

[iffets12345]

Dude the Russians/Germans are BEASTS! Most Eurasians are.... I have a serb friend who is like a tennis pro, skips SACS to play comps but the teachers forgive him, would have aced VCE if he could be that little bit more bothered. Still got 98.9 (Y)

I hate how everyone says Asians are pro. I think Asians reach a high standard of whatever they do through ardent practice, but honestly, the Russians/Germans/French are I believe the most naturally talented throughout history etc. Only the Japanese come close to be honest. Not being racist, this is just be looking at Nobel Prizes, historical mathematicians and writers etc.

Lol!

When I started ice skating (only for fun), I knew a pro skating Russian kid who was only 4. Not only that, but a lot of the Maths/Physics students I know have some form of European heritage.

I think the reason why people think it's innate that Asians are gifted and are pushed, is that they make up the primary number of migrants to Australia (don't quote me, I have no source). Australia doesn't really accommodate culturally for most Europeans (especially eastern Europeans), especially in terms of sport, food (I haven't seen one Hungarian restaurant in Australia WTF?), the main stuff.   

Yea, but the reason why I rationalise that Russians/whatever european race are intellectually usually naturally SMARTER than Asians in general or become smarter is because, look at all the people who discover this cure or this immunization. They're rarely Asian because while Asians APPEAR to make up the majority of doctors/lawyers/WHATEVER socially esteemed career there is, it's always some cauacsian that has innovation to research and explore and expand and push boundaries.
Not generalising, once more going on just history.

[fuzzylogic]

Dude the Russians/Germans are BEASTS! Most Eurasians are.... I have a serb friend who is like a tennis pro, skips SACS to play comps but the teachers forgive him, would have aced VCE if he could be that little bit more bothered. Still got 98.9 (Y)

I hate how everyone says Asians are pro. I think Asians reach a high standard of whatever they do through ardent practice, but honestly, the Russians/Germans/French are I believe the most naturally talented throughout history etc. Only the Japanese come close to be honest. Not being racist, this is just be looking at Nobel Prizes, historical mathematicians and writers etc.

Lol!

When I started ice skating (only for fun), I knew a pro skating Russian kid who was only 4. Not only that, but a lot of the Maths/Physics students I know have some form of European heritage.

I think the reason why people think it's innate that Asians are gifted and are pushed, is that they make up the primary number of migrants to Australia (don't quote me, I have no source). Australia doesn't really accommodate culturally for most Europeans (especially eastern Europeans), especially in terms of sport, food (I haven't seen one Hungarian restaurant in Australia WTF?), the main stuff.   

Yea, but the reason why I rationalise that Russians/whatever european race are intellectually usually naturally SMARTER than Asians in general or become smarter is because, look at all the people who discover this cure or this immunization. They're rarely Asian because while Asians APPEAR to make up the majority of doctors/lawyers/WHATEVER socially esteemed career there is, it's always some cauacsian that has innovation to research and explore and expand and push boundaries.
Not generalising, once more going on just history.

I think in the coming generations we'll see more asians and other ethnicities becoming high flying high achievers in their fields, and especially in research.  A lot of the people who are on the frontier of such things are quite old, and let's face it, most of the groundbreaking research takes place in Europe/England/America/Australia, where the older population is still 'caucasian'.  I think there will be a more even spread that reflects our changing demography in the generation to come.

[iffets12345]

^ Hopefully.

[fuzzylogic]

^ Hopefully.

could be you iffets!

[EvangelionZeta]

I'm inclined to agree with fuzzy.  Iffets is thinking too recently - we're dealing with an age where Asia is recovering from stagnation, and where even giants such as China are still considered "developing".  In such a state, of course European nations are going to have better numbers in regards to Nobel Prize winners and so forth - most Asian nations are still struggling to match the West technologically and socio-economically, never mind in terms of innovation.  This applies even to Asians living in Australia, considering that the demographic for such is comprised mostly of 1st generation migrants and their immediate offspring.  Give Asians some time to get out of their little rut of practicality and they'll return to form a bit.

[fuzzylogic]

I'm inclined to agree with fuzzy.  Iffets is thinking too recently - we're dealing with an age where Asia is recovering from stagnation, and where even giants such as China are still considered "developing".  In such a state, of course European nations are going to have better numbers in regards to Nobel Prize winners and so forth - most Asian nations are still struggling to match the West technologically and socio-economically, never mind in terms of innovation.  This applies even to Asians living in Australia, considering that the demographic for such is comprised mostly of 1st generation migrants and their immediate offspring.  Give Asians some time to get out of their little rut of practicality and they'll return to form a bit.

That said, I don't think Asians will be able to overtake the Europeans in these fields for quite a loooooooong while.  By that I mean Asians in Asia, not in Western countries.

[EvangelionZeta]

I'm inclined to agree with fuzzy.  Iffets is thinking too recently - we're dealing with an age where Asia is recovering from stagnation, and where even giants such as China are still considered "developing".  In such a state, of course European nations are going to have better numbers in regards to Nobel Prize winners and so forth - most Asian nations are still struggling to match the West technologically and socio-economically, never mind in terms of innovation.  This applies even to Asians living in Australia, considering that the demographic for such is comprised mostly of 1st generation migrants and their immediate offspring.  Give Asians some time to get out of their little rut of practicality and they'll return to form a bit.

That said, I don't think Asians will be able to overtake the Europeans in these fields for quite a loooooooong while.  By that I mean Asians in Asia, not in Western countries.

Yeah of course - probably not in our life times, anyway.

[QuantumJG]

Dude the Russians/Germans are BEASTS! Most Eurasians are.... I have a serb friend who is like a tennis pro, skips SACS to play comps but the teachers forgive him, would have aced VCE if he could be that little bit more bothered. Still got 98.9 (Y)

I hate how everyone says Asians are pro. I think Asians reach a high standard of whatever they do through ardent practice, but honestly, the Russians/Germans/French are I believe the most naturally talented throughout history etc. Only the Japanese come close to be honest. Not being racist, this is just be looking at Nobel Prizes, historical mathematicians and writers etc.

Lol!

When I started ice skating (only for fun), I knew a pro skating Russian kid who was only 4. Not only that, but a lot of the Maths/Physics students I know have some form of European heritage.

I think the reason why people think it's innate that Asians are gifted and are pushed, is that they make up the primary number of migrants to Australia (don't quote me, I have no source). Australia doesn't really accommodate culturally for most Europeans (especially eastern Europeans), especially in terms of sport, food (I haven't seen one Hungarian restaurant in Australia WTF?), the main stuff.  

Yea, but the reason why I rationalise that Russians/whatever european race are intellectually usually naturally SMARTER than Asians in general or become smarter is because, look at all the people who discover this cure or this immunization. They're rarely Asian because while Asians APPEAR to make up the majority of doctors/lawyers/WHATEVER socially esteemed career there is, it's always some cauacsian that has innovation to research and explore and expand and push boundaries.
Not generalising, once more going on just history.

I agree with this.

Unless a field has $$$ attached to it, Westerners and Asians want nothing to do with it. Hence why you still see Europeans literally owning research areas. I lol at the fact that my physics classes are almost asianless (even then the Asians are only engineers) and in Business Finance I'm the foreigner.

I make these generalizations based on impressions too. Most people I speak to go "If you like physics why not engineering?" or "You love Maths why didn't you do Actuarial studies?" (This comes from both Asians & Westerners).

Having said all this, I have also seen a few people from the Middle East do Maths. If you look at history it was sort of their domain. The most well recognized mathematician is Euclid who was Egyptian. If anyone on this thread is a Melbourne uni student who's considering studying the history & philosophy of science, you'll see a lot of Europe's mathematical knowledge came from the middle east.

[Cianyx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations
Looking at this, many Asian countries do indeed have the potential to outdo the European nations in terms of research. As a matter of fact, this trend is already starting to surface in the Nobel Prize Laureates. Here are the recipients of physics and chemistry in the last three years.
Charles Kuen Kao, Yoichiro Nambu, Makoto Kobayashi, Toshihide Maskawa, Ei-ichi Negishi, Akira Suzuki, Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, Osamu Shimomura, Roger Y. Tsien.

The nobel prizze is a poor indicator anyway. There is a great chance that many innovations by the Chinese were either ignored due to their Communist ties or kept secret. Japan is probably more focused on paying off their enormous debts and during the war periods, due to their position against the Swedes, were probably ignored anyway.

[iffets12345]

^ majority japanese LOL. But I did discuss this with EZ and its true social and financial situations of each country affect their performance in terms of this intellect discussion.

[EvangelionZeta]

^ majority japanese LOL. But I did discuss this with EZ and its true social and financial situations of each country affect their performance in terms of this intellect discussion.

Yeah, Japan's the only one that's recovered from being a developing nation...

[kamil9876]

The most well recognized mathematician is Euclid who was Egyptian

No he was Ancient Greek.

[Cianyx]

China is far from a developing nation tbh. Consider this, Australia, as well as many other surrounding nations are completely dependant on China. For example, due to the recent recession, America is in debt to both China as well as Japan.

Either way, I'm putting bets on these countries in the near future (eg. next year). Another unsung hero in terms of innovation is Singapore. Had a relatively strong economy for some time due to their ability to monopolise the Malayan peninsula. However, because of their lack of exports, they were forced to rely on inventing high tech products.

[Chavi]

Self motivation is far, far more important for long term success than parental pressure.

China is far from a developing nation tbh.

perhaps you meant 'developed' nation?

Yea, but the reason why I rationalise that Russians/whatever european race are intellectually usually naturally SMARTER than Asians in general or become smarter is because, look at all the people who discover this cure or this immunization. They're rarely Asian because while Asians APPEAR to make up the majority of doctors/lawyers/WHATEVER socially esteemed career there is, it's always some cauacsian that has innovation to research and explore and expand and push boundaries.
Not generalising, once more going on just history.

Most of the innovation in the past 100 years has come out of Europe and the US, because of the larger focus on childhood education. Whilst Albert Einstein was complaining about boredom in primary school, his counterparts in India and China were growing up illiterate and living on farms they didn't own.

Exposure to education is the key here. Only once a substantial cross-section of the population is exposed to educational opportunities (like the case is now in China), can you make such an assessment: that one race/nationality is inherently more intelligent than another.

Although I do see a separate problem developing, particular within migrant and Asian communities - in which academic brilliance comes at the expense of practical life experience. We see now in China a growing culture of rigid adherence to textbooks and rote learning that unfortunately stymies innovation and creativity, whilst purveying total conformity to the nationwide examination system. You can see similar things here with VCE students.

Often those with the highest VCE scores are least adept for life beyond the classroom.

[Zien]

I agree with Chavi. The education system in Western societies tend to focus more on the expansion of ones knowledge beyond that of testing and examinations that fosters creativity and innovation. Even though Japan has had a hand in the development in technology and other similar fields, much of their education doesn't escape the similarities between the education in Asian countries.

For example, when I was 4 and studying in Malaysia, I was placed in a tuition centers for various subjects including English. This is normal over there, practically encouraged as most students enroll in private tuition centers. From what I gather if I had grown up in Malaysia, I would have attended school from ~7am-1pm (or the afternoon shift from 2pm-6pm I think it was). Then return home for a meal and get ready for a tuition that can start anywhere from 4-9pm and late into the night. I know that this is also apparent in Singapore and, to a lesser extent, Japan. Check this out for a short but somewhat interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuition_center

In Japan the majority of the focus on tuition is on those in the final year of their high school, readying themselves to take entrance exams into Universities (as each university has their own entrance exam). Students would attend these tuition for the particular university they are aiming for the sole purpose of passing and entering. Many would even sleep in class during the day so they can get some rest for tuition at night. Graduating from a prestigious University in Japan is more significant than in Western societies, or so I've been told.


Now all this repetitive education in classrooms and tuition really does "stymie innovation and creativity", to quote Chavi. It's effective in achieving great results in examinations and such but doesn't really do much for creativity and innovation; I think that's a different mindset that needs to be achieved.