Lowest ATARs at selective/private schools.

[Tobias Funke]

I disagree Rohitpi, our teachers may not all be great, but for every bad one, theres a good one. That said, the German dept. looks to be in a bad state with both teachers leaving this year.

Also ATAR, we don't just do well because of peer competition, almost everyone in the school is there because they managed to pass some sort of general aptitude test, which indicated they had the ability to do well in the first place.

[iNerd]

I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'

That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.

[shinny]

I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'

That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.

As one of my English teachers said at MHS, just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong. If you're going to chuck an opinion out there, be prepared for it to be challenged - slapping an 'IMO' on it doesn't change anything. Quite similar to the 'no offense but...' kinda situation.

Anyway, I think it's really a variety of factors. As Burberry has pointed out, our best subjects are probably Commerce-related and Geography. I really don't think people are getting tutoring in these... And although the majority are doing the Asian 5 and getting tutoring for it, compare those that do tutoring in MHS to those that do tutoring elsewhere and the discrepancy in scores is huge. The small number of drop-outs and stuff are just outliers and is bound to happen. I don't think you can disprove the entire thing through that alone. No test is perfect, but I'm quite sure that the act of siphoning many of the top students through the aptitude test does make a huge difference. VCE isn't just a game of how hard you study during it - there is sadly a part of natural talent in it and I'm sure you'll work that out once you start it.

[iNerd]

I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'

That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.

As one of my English teachers said at MHS, just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong. If you're going to chuck an opinion out there, be prepared for it to be challenged - slapping an 'IMO' on it doesn't change anything. Quite similar to the 'no offense but...' kinda situation.

Anyway, I think it's really a variety of factors. As Burberry has pointed out, our best subjects are probably Commerce-related and Geography. I really don't think people are getting tutoring in these... And although the majority are doing the Asian 5 and getting tutoring for it, compare those that do tutoring in MHS to those that do tutoring elsewhere and the discrepancy in scores is huge. The small number of drop-outs and stuff are just outliers and is bound to happen. I don't think you can disprove the entire thing through that alone. No test is perfect, but I'm quite sure that the act of siphoning many of the top students through the aptitude test does make a huge difference. VCE isn't just a game of how hard you study during it - there is sadly a part of natural talent in it and I'm sure you'll work that out once you start it.

Fair enough but out of all the so called 'not-so-perfect dodgy' tests (UMAT, GAMSAT, MHS Exam etc) don't you think this entrance exam is a bit fail? A 15-minute essay (times 2) is meant to indicate a Year 8's English talent? I mean all the training places I went to basically said "you have to write 2 pages, one is too less". It became more quantity > quality. And these 'outliers' aren't merely outliers, there's plenty in the bracket of 70-90 (not offending anyone but for a 'select entry school' that's low). I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot. And yeah, so I've heard, hard work doesn't get rewarded in VCE.

[werdna]

I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot.

Wouldn't this be a good thing to have in a school? If my school were to have this kind of vibe, there would be in no doubt, far better outcomes for the school as a whole.

[iNerd]

I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot.

Wouldn't this be a good thing to have in a school? If my school were to have this kind of vibe, there would be in no doubt, far better outcomes for the school as a whole.

It's a great thing! - when did I say it wasn't? I was merely pointing out the misconception that the teachers are good because they are far from it (as indicated by Rohitpi predominately). You have ~1200 'academically able' (as determined by the exam which I don't like) students in the same school, it is highly beneficial.

[shinny]

I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'

That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.

As one of my English teachers said at MHS, just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong. If you're going to chuck an opinion out there, be prepared for it to be challenged - slapping an 'IMO' on it doesn't change anything. Quite similar to the 'no offense but...' kinda situation.

Anyway, I think it's really a variety of factors. As Burberry has pointed out, our best subjects are probably Commerce-related and Geography. I really don't think people are getting tutoring in these... And although the majority are doing the Asian 5 and getting tutoring for it, compare those that do tutoring in MHS to those that do tutoring elsewhere and the discrepancy in scores is huge. The small number of drop-outs and stuff are just outliers and is bound to happen. I don't think you can disprove the entire thing through that alone. No test is perfect, but I'm quite sure that the act of siphoning many of the top students through the aptitude test does make a huge difference. VCE isn't just a game of how hard you study during it - there is sadly a part of natural talent in it and I'm sure you'll work that out once you start it.

Fair enough but out of all the so called 'not-so-perfect dodgy' tests (UMAT, GAMSAT, MHS Exam etc) don't you think this entrance exam is a bit fail? A 15-minute essay (times 2) is meant to indicate a Year 8's English talent? I mean all the training places I went to basically said "you have to write 2 pages, one is too less". It became more quantity > quality. And these 'outliers' aren't merely outliers, there's plenty in the bracket of 70-90 (not offending anyone but for a 'select entry school' that's low). I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot. And yeah, so I've heard, hard work doesn't get rewarded in VCE.

Have you considered that having a 70-90 as an 'outlier' is often actually considered freaking good at another school? This just shows that the test does something if even our 'outliers' are doing quite well relatively. And yeh, I don't believe the exam is as accurate as it could be. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have any effect.

I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot.

I agree with that point as well but didn't state it because I already thought we were mutual on the benefits of that. I only disagree with your point previously regarding that tuition is the main factor when clearly there's a discrepancy between those who get tuition in MHS and those elsewhere.

[iNerd]

I did explicitly state that a 70-90 at a 'select-entry' school is low but in the larger scale of things, yes it's "freaking good". And yes, the test does 'something', I was merely implying it doesn't do 'enough' in selecting 'select' students.

I think there's a misinterpretation. I'm not saying MHS kids do well just because of students/tutor, I'm saying it's because of these two factors (students moreso and I concede also due to natural talent) - not teachers, because this all arose since people think MHS has all good teachers.

[shinny]

I think there's a misinterpretation. I'm not saying MHS kids do well just because of students/tutor, I'm saying it's because of these two factors (students moreso and I concede also due to natural talent) - not teachers, because this all arose since people think MHS has all good teachers.

Fair enough - it's just that your earlier post made it sound otherwise. It really is a combination of factors and I just found it strange that you seemed to think that the test didn't play a part in all of this. But yes, teachers definitely do not (well, does some of the time but usually not).

[burbs]

I almost didn't get into MHS, thank god for discretion.

[iNerd]

One of the 2010 MacRob 99.95-ers got in through principal's discretion.

Seems like you're following the trend

[werdna]

One of the 2010 MacRob 99.95-ers got in through principal's discretion.

Seems like you're following the trend

 

MHS will be ecstatic that they let him in.

Burberry, change your name to 99.95_for_sure. This time, it won't actually be a.. misleading hoax. 

[burbs]

Ha I've done enough in yr 9,10 and 11 for them to know its not a mistake.

But seriously, anyone who thinks I have a perfect score in the bag is severely disillusioned - though I am flattered. My subject choices and past performance in school and those subjects shows proves that 99+ will be an effort. So thanks but no need to go overboard

[werdna]

The school captain of MGS got a 99.95 with ALL humanities subjects, NO maths/sciences whatsoever.

You've got Methods and Chemistry and the rest humanities.. you'll do fine.

[azngirl456]

MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.

Third'd.  From what I hear, MacRob has the same sort of problem on the whole.

Confirmed. I've heard some teachers who've used teaching at a selective school for a year as a stepping stone to move to private schools.