med or not?

[Stroodle]

Well if you want evidence rather than belief here are a couple of sources I (cherry) picked from pubmed/supersearch

No gene has yet been conclusively linked to intelligence

Sternberg, Robert J., Elena L. Grigorenko, and Kenneth K. Kidd. "Intelligence, race, and genetics." The American Psychologist 60.1 (2005): 46+. Expanded Academic ASAP. Web. 19 Jan. 2011.

In the early 21st century, familial studies, including twin studies, supported the theory that genetic variations contribute to differences in cognition, but have been of little practical use to clinical and educational practitioners as no individual predictions can be made using such data; heritability cannot predict the impact of environmental factors or intervention programs.

Genetics and Cognition The Impact for Psychologists in Applied Settings, European psychologist [1016-9040] Carlier yr:2010 vol:15 iss:1 pg:49 -57

Can't half tell that you're a uni student.. (:

[Russ]

hahah, finding obscure citations will become second nature to you!

[EvangelionZeta]

I personally believe that it's nearly all due to environmental influences, and, in most cases, only partly due to biological makeup.

This can always be argued, but it's nevertheless a fact (well, a "fact", given that I'm using empirical evidence) that a lot of people who work intensely hard never quite reach the standard of people who do absolutely nothing.  I know people who have had tutors in every subject and who worked incredibly hard for school, who did worse in pretty much everything compared to other people who are just naturally gifted, and who have done less work. 

In regards to knowledge and skill, I think we're also forgetting that these terms extend beyond academic achievement.  I've always seen intelligence as something that transcends the quantifiable: when talking to some people, you just "know" that they're thinking on a higher plane as compared to the majority, because they pick up on things and work things out which most people won't be able to.  Think Sherlock Holmes for instance. 

[iffets12345]

i'm not even that smart, i barely studied last year

Because they totally let dumbasses become future health-care professionals.

[iffets12345]

In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.

What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?

I have never actually met someone who's done this...

Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.

I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?

Well I can tell you right now that I don't think I did crap in the UMAT (78th percentile) because I was naturally going to be bad at it. I scored decent : a 61 for sec 1, a 53 for sec 3 which is awesome for me because I can't do it to save my life, and a shocking 41 for sec 2.

Now, on the ACER test I got 100% for sec 2, and though I know it's easier, people and myself would consider sec 2 to be my best chance of doing well in the UMAT.

So really, I most likely did poorly in the UMAT not because I was crap naturally and did the best that I could, but rather I might have been arrogant/unlucky or just plan weirded out on the day.

So maybe, I could push that UMAT to an 85th percentile if I figured out what went wrong in section 2.

THAT's how people go up 20 percentile points I think.

[taiga]

OP is a troll.

[Russ]

I doubt the OP is a troll. Bonifacio is up for debate though

[Romperait]

I heard troll tastes nice.

[Stroodle]

In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.

What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?

I have never actually met someone who's done this...

Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.

I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?

Well I can tell you right now that I don't think I did crap in the UMAT (78th percentile) because I was naturally going to be bad at it. I scored decent : a 61 for sec 1, a 53 for sec 3 which is awesome for me because I can't do it to save my life, and a shocking 41 for sec 2.

Now, on the ACER test I got 100% for sec 2, and though I know it's easier, people and myself would consider sec 2 to be my best chance of doing well in the UMAT.

So really, I most likely did poorly in the UMAT not because I was crap naturally and did the best that I could, but rather I might have been arrogant/unlucky or just plan weirded out on the day.

So maybe, I could push that UMAT to an 85th percentile if I figured out what went wrong in section 2.

THAT's how people go up 20 percentile points I think.

My friend boosted his score mainly by practicing section 3. I also found section 3 to be the easiest section to improve, but I guess it's different for different people.
I actually think that confidence is one of the biggest hindrances for many people.

[simpak]

If it's all environmental why is my brother such an academic failure?
(That's meant to be a humorous, rhetorical question and not one you need to answer guys.  I'm a psychology student).

[melodic]

I've noticed many people who wish you not to go with med are hoping to get into med as well, which is expected. I made it into med this year - think me naive but it has been my dream, my goal for the last 10 years or so.

Many of those I know who made it into med, or who were hoping to receive an offer, are almost 100% sure they want to do so, and likely will be willing to put the work in to succeed at any cost. If this isn't what you truly want, but instead cars and girls, I don't believe it is the course for you. Not just university, but being a doctor is a lot more than just being naturally intelligent or lucky in the UMAT, so being misinformed is the last thing you want to be when accepting an offer into Medicine. I highly doubt you'll be getting a whole lot of girls, and money won't come until much, MUCH later. (for money, do dentistry!) Also, as others pointed out, many who did not make it in could be bordering on desperate, and it would be somewhat kind of you to reject and let them have the opportunity they so greatly desire.

In my opinion you should not take it and do something you enjoy, especially if you know you will not enjoy being a doctor. But ultimately it's up to you.

-

I think that if you are naturally intelligent then you will grasp concepts more quickly and with greater ease, meaning that you can spend less time trying to do so. If you study hard on top of that, this means you have that remaining time to stamp out mistakes, errors, etc that are needed to succeed in exams. For me, I am not naturally smart but I work my ass off - I spent too long trying to understand Physics concepts (which every naturally intelligent person found boring and too EASY to understand), or couldn't comprehend good english essay structure, which meant less time for actual revision or perfecting exam technique. Luck + exam preparation (knowing the layout, structure of the exam) helped me out on UMAT. Hard work can get you far but most likely will not get you the 99.95.

[simpak]

Quick story I just thought of: this guy my brother was friends with was dux and so did Med and was almost done with his doctorate before he decided he actually hated med.
Now he just blogs.
I'm not even kidding, I don't think he has another profession.

Moral: don't do stuff just because you can or you will waste years of your life.

[CharlieW]

Quick story I just thought of: this guy my brother was friends with was dux and so did Med and was almost done with his doctorate before he decided he actually hated med.
Now he just blogs.
I'm not even kidding, I don't think he has another profession.

Moral: don't do stuff just because you can or you will waste years of your life.

he must be a damn good blogger

I think that if you are naturally intelligent then you will grasp concepts more quickly and with greater ease, meaning that you can spend less time trying to do so. If you study hard on top of that, this means you have that remaining time to stamp out mistakes, errors, etc that are needed to succeed in exams. For me, I am not naturally smart but I work my ass off - I spent too long trying to understand Physics concepts (which every naturally intelligent person found boring and too EASY to understand), or couldn't comprehend good english essay structure, which meant less time for actual revision or perfecting exam technique. Luck + exam preparation (knowing the layout, structure of the exam) helped me out on UMAT. Hard work can get you far but most likely will not get you the 99.95.

agree with all of this except the last sentence.......

[iffets12345]

I do. I think anything above 48 is really just dependent on luck, and 99.95s are a mixture of hard work but I mean, with the 99.9-99.95 range, there is a discrepancy that usually is just luck. Look at kyzoo, he deserves the .95.

[CharlieW]

I do. I think anything above 48 is really just dependent on luck, and 99.95s are a mixture of hard work but I mean, with the 99.9-99.95 range, there is a discrepancy that usually is just luck. Look at kyzoo, he deserves the .95.

i don't think fuzzylogic was luck lol