Olmert: Israel has no interest in a prolonged war in Gaza

[suenoga]

Yes Fatah were terrorists,  but are now much more moderate. What's your point? Because Fatah were extremists that excuses the actions of Hamas?

[osmoister]

Israel does not target civillians, Hamas does.  

tell that to the hundred or so civilains killed recently, and the many more before

Hamas was democraticly elected but did not hold  and has never held (to my knowledge) the prime ministerial position. I think you are confused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Haniyah

[osmoister]

What is this "Israel has done worse" argument simply on the scale of numbers killed?

I think a better statistic with which to compare the two is "Number of civilians intentionally killed". Hamas deliberately sets up its quarters in civilian areas (like universities) to maximise collateral damage from any Israeli strike on it. It is a deliberate ploy to use its citizens to win sympathy. It is one of the most disgusting acts of treachery ever seen in the field of war.

compare the size of the gaza and the population, it is extremely densely populated.

[enwiabe]

Hamas is a terrorist organisation that must be dismantled if there is to be peace in the Middle East.

fatah were terrorists before, where they not?

Well that's the point, no? They WERE a terrorist organisation, but then they gained some sense, recognised Israel and renounced all terrorist actions. Now no government in the world deems Fatah to be a terrorist organisation, and thus none of their establishments are currently being blown to smithereens by Israel.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation, thus Israel will do everything in its power to ensure its citizens' safety from it.

[enwiabe]

What is this "Israel has done worse" argument simply on the scale of numbers killed?

I think a better statistic with which to compare the two is "Number of civilians intentionally killed". Hamas deliberately sets up its quarters in civilian areas (like universities) to maximise collateral damage from any Israeli strike on it. It is a deliberate ploy to use its citizens to win sympathy. It is one of the most disgusting acts of treachery ever seen in the field of war.

compare the size of the west bank and the population, it is extremely densely populated.

There are still many open areas in which the bases could be set up, yet they are not. You tell me how it is justified that an organisation uses a university as its base of operations to develop rockets to lob at a country?

It isn't. This blind devotion you have to a terrorist organisation is quite worrying...

[suenoga]

I meant Hamas does not hold the presidental position , which is the person who holds the power in the territories.

[osmoister]

Yes Fatah were terrorists,  but are now much more moderate. What's your point? Because Fatah were extremists that excuses the actions of Hamas?

beause fatah were 'terrorists' and somewhat more moderate, they are exemp from the israeli blame game and hamas are not? is that your opinion? and because hamas kill people, that excuses the israeli army from killing much more people?

[suenoga]

Although I consider myself a lefty, I feel sick when people justify the actions of Hamas. They are a major face of Islamo-facism.  The left are blinded by this fact because of their insistence on putting down Israel and the United States.

[osmoister]

I meant Hamas does not hold the presidental position , which is the person who holds the power in the territories.

your posts clearly didn't. and yes, president does hold power but the prime minister is also the power holder, as is the cabinet and the democratically elected parliament.

[enwiabe]

Yes Fatah were terrorists,  but are now much more moderate. What's your point? Because Fatah were extremists that excuses the actions of Hamas?

beause fatah were 'terrorists' and somewhat more moderate, they are exemp from the israeli blame game and hamas are not? is that your opinion? and because hamas kill people, that excuses the israeli army from killing much more people?

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Could you please clarify?

[osmoister]

Although I consider myself a lefty, I feel sick when people justify the actions of Hamas. They are a major face of Islamo-facism. 

i don't seek to justify the actons of hamas, they kill civillians. i don't support their political views either, but they were democratically elected by their people and are no worse than the israeli army when it comes to targeting civilians. that is my point.

[suenoga]

Hamas- Holds Parliament, Prime-ministerial position as well as Gaza.
Fatah- Holds the Presidency and the West Bank

Hamas were not thrown out of  the West Bank. The only reason they hold Gaza is because they took it an armed conflict.

[suenoga]

i don't seek to justify the actons of hamas, they kill civillians. i don't support their political views either, but they were democratically elected by their people and are no worse than the israeli army when it comes to targeting civilians. that is my point.
[/quote]

Hamas targets civilians deliberately  and places it's own targets beneath kindergartens and hospitals.
Israel targets terrorists and undeniably kills civillians accidently in the process.

I think you can see a difference.

[enwiabe]

Although I consider myself a lefty, I feel sick when people justify the actions of Hamas. They are a major face of Islamo-facism. 

i don't seek to justify the actons of hamas, they kill civillians. i don't support their political views either, but they were democratically elected by their people and are no worse than the israeli army when it comes to targeting civilians. that is my point.

Then I would contend that that viewpoint is most naive, when clearly every Israeli target in this war has been a Hamas installation of some kind. Civilians are extremely regrettable collateral damage, but Hamas leaves Israel no choice. "Kill or be killed", as the saying goes. And it so tragically applies here.

[osmoister]

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Could you please clarify?

point one
fatah were terrorists just like hamas, yet israel dosen't treat them the same way. the al-axha brigade have killed more israelis than hamas, yet they're not the main tagret.

point two
israeli army kill more civilians than hamas. don't try to pass them off as heroes whilst hamas are the 'bad guys'