Mother of 5 to be hanged for insulting Muhammed

[Souljette_93]

But had the woman actually insulted Muhammad, would she deserve to be punished (capital/corporal)? If you believe this to be true, it is not corruption, but due to a fundamental flaw in Islam itself.

Yes, no doubt.
You're going to have to agree that I disagree. It is not a Fundamental "flaw" as you put it. It is sacred as any other law that we have. You don't know prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him's) status and position he is to us, so before you judge you should know and understand who he is to us. Although I doubt you ever will, and never will you be able to feel what we feel.

My argument is that Islam INFLUENCES this corruption more than any other religion. Not that it directly condones intolerance, but that the nature of the religion causes intolerant behaviours to become prominent.

No it's not Islam, it is just your view and attitude you approach with Islam. It maybe the people themselves who are causing this, not the faith itself.

If you're going to talk about Islam in itself, you should know it's the fastest growing religion, ironically it's more of the females who are entering it, so telling me that it influences corruption would mean that all those people who enter our faith are wanting the corruption.

Just because all those attacks that is evidently created by Muslims doesn't mean it is Islam that's making it, or even them fighting in the name of Islam. (Some of which, are obviously contrary to the faith itself).

[ninwa]

The title of this thread is misleading. This women did not 'insult' the prophet, merely disagreed with that he is a prophet and Islam altogether. Like many of you here on this forum. I don't think saying that he was not a true prophet ( although regardless of what and who says, he is) can qualify as blasphemy, but anything more it would certainly would have.

1) What would be classified as "anything more"?

2) Do you believe true blasphemy warrants a death sentence? / Is that provided for in Shariah law?

[Souljette_93]

The title of this thread is misleading. This women did not 'insult' the prophet, merely disagreed with that he is a prophet and Islam altogether. Like many of you here on this forum. I don't think saying that he was not a true prophet ( although regardless of what and who says, he is) can qualify as blasphemy, but anything more it would certainly would have.

1) What would be classified as "anything more"?

2) Do you believe true blasphemy warrants a death sentence? / Is that provided for in Shariah law?

1) A direct attack, in any shape or form. ( i.e. Cartoon drawing, making movies ( like what hollands doing), mockery, saying any foul language towards him..please, i don't want to think of it)
2)Yes. No doubt.

[Jshaz]

i think the most disturbing issue here is the way in which some muslims apply the somewhat, uncivilized and savage laws in their religion. All im saying is, people dont get hung for jesus or moses jokes. As more of Asia and Africa's population becomes muslim, this type of savage and primitive behavior becomes more common, and most disturbingly, overlooked.

But one can understand why it is so overlooked in the western world. Take the dutch film maker would made a film about violence towrds women in islam.....he was stabbed in broad daylight on its release. No one wants to talk about the way the violence in islam is spreading throughout the world. And its examples such as the one above which really show why..

hmm...what an intresting and peaceful video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=illF1vt5g1Q

[sam99]

Do you believe true blasphemy warrants a death sentence? / Is that provided for in Shariah law?
[/quote]

What is the difference between 'blasphemy' and 'true blasphemy'?

"The punishment for blasphemy in most of the major religions is death. It is stated in the Old Testament of the Bible, which is the authority for Judaism and Christianity:

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: [Book of Leviticus 24:16]

And in the Law book of the Hindus, it says:

“If a man born of a lower class intentionally bothers a priest, the king should punish him physically with various forms of corporal and capital punishment that make men shudder.” [Manusmriti 9:248]

The punishment for blasphemy in Islam :
“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;” [Surah Al-Maidah 5:33].

In Islam, a person who has committed blasphemy can be exiled from that land- which is usually the case unless there is a mob reaction and the media takes up the warcry. Wherein other religions there is no other option except capital punishment. Islam at least has four options of punishment for an act of blasphemy.

But the question is- what is 'blasphemy' and what really constitutes it depends on teh intention, the status of there person who commits the act. In Pakistan most cases of blasphemy emanate from the poorer classes- there has never been a case of blasphemy within the political elite. And before you question how many non-Muslims there are the political elite- there are quite a few. The Supreme Court Judge of Pakistan (Chief Justice) was Hindu and there are many ministers who are Christian.  

In poverty, in-fighting, land-grabbing and feudal systems force many people to abuse laws. Therefore using such headline grabbing ideas maybe "sound and fury signifying nothing".
As for death sentences- I absolutely agree that capital punishment should be enforced for crimes such as rape which unfortunately is not done so in the West. Rape is not murder- it is far greater than murder it is a life sentence for a victim- a living death.

But in Islamic countries Shariah laws are not really applicable because these societies are not really Islamic- the amount of corruption and immoral activities means that poverty, abuse of rights forces people to behave in ways they wouldn't ordinarily have. So Shariah law should not be applied completely...I think

[Jshaz]

ahhh... but the difference between judisim christainty and islam is, that although we may share the same laws regarding blashphemy, only islam chooses to implement the more brutal and savage ones. Hmmm, i think i remember the time where all relgions implemented the 'death for blasphamey' law....ahh yes, it was called the dark ages.....how quaint

[ninwa]

2)Yes. No doubt.

In that case, I don't understand why you have reacted so defensively in this thread. The outrage generated by the media is based upon the fact that something like blasphemy could warrant such a severe penalty. I believe the posters here (particularly Chavi, but he can confirm this when his ban expires) take issue with the fact that Shariah law not only has absolutely no respect for freedom of speech, but additionally imposes such a harsh punishment on something which is accepted as a basic human right in democratic countries like Australia. This is also why several people have reacted so negatively to the idea of implementing a separate Shariah-based legal system in Australia.

[Souljette_93]

2)Yes. No doubt.

In that case, I don't understand why you have reacted so defensively in this thread. The outrage generated by the media is based upon the fact that something like blasphemy could warrant such a severe penalty. I believe the posters here (particularly Chavi, but he can confirm this when his ban expires) take issue with the fact that Shariah law not only has absolutely no respect for freedom of speech, but additionally imposes such a harsh punishment on something which is accepted as a basic human right in democratic countries like Australia. This is also why several people have reacted so negatively to the idea of implementing a separate Shariah-based legal system in Australia.

Because when I read the title of this thread, my blood was already boiling-thinking "Who has attacked one of my beloved?".
TBH-it's not a harsh punishment, tell me, what is the benefit of committing any blasphemy against any religion? What are you going to get out of it? Every Abrahamic faith has it's own laws against blasphemy and people may as well respect that.

And any, Chavi already doesn't know much about Islam except what the media has fed him, so either he chooses to ask the Islamic position by sincerely asking one of us, or continue to take from the media.

In any case, I find it funny how people would react to negatively towards "Shariah-based law" ( shouldn't even be called that anyhow) because it will only be concerning the Muslims, and even those Muslims who want to be ruled by it. And also in any case, it can't be applied here because you'd need to live under the Caliphate of Islam ( which doesn't exist anymore) or under a country which applies *some* laws of Shariah law. ( i.e.Saudi Arabia)

[fady_22]

I know about Islam more than you would think. I have been able to have a more subjective view of it as a Catholic in the middle east. Just as you accuse Chavi is ignorant of Islam, I suspect that you are also (with no offence intended). I am aware what Muhammad means to you, and it is equal to what Jesus means to Christians. This does not justify the murder of truly innocent people, or are just standing up for what THEY believe in. In fact, it almost defeats the purpose of religion.

Such harsh punishments make it seem as if Muslims are insecure about their faith, to the extent that they must eradicate all ideas that Islam is not as pure as it may seem (to them, anyway). This does not exist, to as great an extent, in other religions.

What is the point of blasphemy? The real question should be, what is the point of this punishment?

[ninwa]

Your logic is flawed. Does getting nothing out of an act mean that the act warrants the death penalty? I don't understand what that has anything to do with it.
Should I be able to sentence you to death for saying something bad about my boyfriend? (He is my beloved after all!)
Should Orthodox Jews like Yitzi be able to sentence you to death for saying God rather than G-d?

It is a harsh punishment to the people of Australia because our standards of human rights are different to yours.

Every Abrahamic faith has it's own laws against blasphemy and people may as well respect that.

No. Australian law will never respect that because under Australian law, not only has the death penalty been abolished, but all avenues for reinstating the penalty have also been closed.

In any case, I find it funny how people would react to negatively towards "Shariah-based law" ( shouldn't even be called that anyhow) because it will only be concerning the Muslims, and even those Muslims who want to be ruled by it.

It is interesting how you say "and even" rather than "and only". I can only presume you are suggesting that all Muslims would be subject to Shariah law if it were introduced in Australia. What about the Muslims that don't want to be?

People react negatively because sentencing someone to death for exercising their freedom of speech is a heinous thing to do in the culture of this country. What does it matter whether that someone is Muslim or not? They are still human, and still Australians, and therefore they should be the subject of our concern.

[Mao]

So let me get this straight, was Asia Bibi (the mother of 5) even Muslim? The news article leads me to believe she wasn't.

[Souljette_93]

Sorry, I am no ignorant, but just hopefully a student of knowledge I have the facts backed up from my religion, hadiths & Quranic verses, and even from all that I cannot truly say I know everything.

Besides, I commented on the approach you handle with Islam, and if you changed that, then everything would be a lot more clearer.

Jesus + Moses is as equal ranks with Prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon them All). It is just that people don't go attacking them as they do with prophet Muhammed. They are all dear to us as Muhammad. But why is it only prophet Muhammed that gets attacked? Because it is a direct link to Islam. And that really is there motive~referring to the cartoonist and whatnot. The blasphemy law in Islam is equally applied to Moses and Jesus, and I kid you not, I'd be just as outraged.

The scholars of Islam have all agreed that anyone speaks offensively against the prophet is to be sentenced to death. The meaning of it is far too great. It is not like anything else. I personally would rather you to insult me, my family, my country, my whole life but not the Prophet. And if you truly understand, it's not that we are "insecure" or "eradicating" any ideas. Truth is that we don't need to. But that again, would be hard for you to understand.

The point of Blasphemy? Wisdom lies with Allah-perhaps there are more comprehensive reasons than the one I am giving, but this is the way I see it.

The punishments prevents many others from doing these atrociousness acts-nobody would ever wish to be sentenced to death, hence apply as severe punishment. ( just as for rape, murder..etc)

In any case, it demands respect for other religions and faiths. I would never wish to attack other beliefs. The law of respect should be applied-tolerance. If you want harmony on this earth then we cannot be on each others throats-you may have different views, but that doesn't mean you should try to enforce it on everybody.

And it shouldn't be done under the banner of "free speech". Personally that's all a joke. You cannot have free speech that contains "hate speech". And speaking negatively about the prophet is purely based on hate, ignorance and bigotry.

What is it to you or the rest of the world that people must go ahead and condemn the prophet that they have never met, and does not even concern them?

[stonecold]

Here is a better report on the story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoM5LSeRMGE&feature=related

[Mao]

The law of respect should be applied-tolerance. If you want harmony on this earth then we cannot be on each others throats-you may have different views, but that doesn't mean you should try to enforce it on everybody.

And it shouldn't be done under the banner of "free speech". Personally that's all a joke. You cannot have free speech that contains "hate speech". And speaking negatively about the prophet is purely based on hate, ignorance and bigotry.

I beg you pardon? The most hypocritical piece I've ever read.

You demand respect and tolerance, yet we cannot express our opinion of disbelief. You call my belief (free speech) a joke, yet we cannot call your Allah a joke. You call our rational reasoning 'hate speech', yet we cannot call your irrational thoughts ignorant. You say we shouldn't try to enforce our belief on everyone, yet you are willing to support an Islamic belief that anyone who speaks against Allah should be executed?

I don't even know what to say right now.

[ninwa]

Jesus + Moses is as equal ranks with Prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon them All). It is just that people don't go attacking them as they do with prophet Muhammed.

You've clearly never watched South Park...

Also, what Mao said.