Muhammed mentioned in the Bible and Torah.

[Souljette_93]

No, Jews pray 3 times per day.

[Yitzi_K]

Incorrect. There genuinely are people alive today who study 20 hours a day.  Rav Elyashiv goes to sleep at 10.30 and wakes at 2 am, and doesn't stop learning in his waking hours.

And they're all a useless burden on Israel.

Seriously, how selfish is it to sit and read a book all day and
expect other people to subsidise your ridiculous lifestyle?

What a scourge on society.

Lol useless burden. The world couldn't exist without them.

hmm intresting Yitzi, do jews pray 5 times a day or something like muslims... ? like is their daily prayers or something?

Jews pray three times a day, morning prayers take 45 mins - an hour, afternoon and evening prayers take 10-15 minutes each.

[enwiabe]

Lol useless burden. The world couldn't exist without them.

Explain that, using logic. You know the world (planet earth) existed for BILLIONS of years before "god" "appeared" to that savage tribe four thousand years ago, yeah?

Or are you a young earth creationist? If so, LOL

[MuggedByReality]

 

Incorrect. There genuinely are people alive today who study 20 hours a day.  Rav Elyashiv goes to sleep at 10.30 and wakes at 2 am, and doesn't stop learning in his waking hours.

And they're all a useless burden on Israel.

Seriously, how selfish is it to sit and read a book all day and
expect other people to subsidise your ridiculous lifestyle?

What a scourge on society.

Lol useless burden. The world couldn't exist without them.

  So how many people need to be studying the Torah and for how long, exactly, if the world is to continue to exist?



  Edit: Ha! Dennis Prager, (as well as making a good case against the continued indulgence of the Charedim) draws a parallel between Yeshiva scholars and Liberal Arts academics. Nice one!
  http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/ultra-orthodox_yeshivas_and_secular_universities_20101201/

[Yitzi_K]

Lol useless burden. The world couldn't exist without them.

Explain that, using logic. You know the world (planet earth) existed for BILLIONS of years before "god" "appeared" to that savage tribe four thousand years ago, yeah?

Or are you a young earth creationist? If so, LOL

I believe that 5771 years ago, G-d created a billion-year-old earth.

Incorrect. There genuinely are people alive today who study 20 hours a day.  Rav Elyashiv goes to sleep at 10.30 and wakes at 2 am, and doesn't stop learning in his waking hours.

And they're all a useless burden on Israel.

Seriously, how selfish is it to sit and read a book all day and
expect other people to subsidise your ridiculous lifestyle?

What a scourge on society.

Lol useless burden. The world couldn't exist without them.

  So how many people need to be studying the Torah and for how long, exactly, if the world is to continue to exist?



  Edit: Ha! Dennis Prager, (as well as making a good case against the continued indulgence of the Charedim) draws a parallel between Yeshiva scholars and Liberal Arts academics. Nice one!
  http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/ultra-orthodox_yeshivas_and_secular_universities_20101201/

The world was created for the purpose of Torah study, so without it, the world would cease to exist. As long as at all times one person, somewhere in the world, is learning Torah, the world can exist; otherwise, not.

In fact there were yeshivot in Europe before the war which deliberately had learning sessions by different groups of students round the clock just because of this.

Re your article, it's interesting to note that the Israeli economy came through the GFC better than just about every other western economy out there, despite, (or some might say because of) the charedi issue. Also I notice it's ignored that a very high percentage of charedi women work, and thus the sector is contributing to the economy.

[enwiabe]

Wow, you are truly a deluded person. You have no evidence for any of this, and yet you believe it as if it were fact.

The damage that has been done to your mind... it is sickening.

I said use logic, and facts. Not hearsay and your ridiculous beliefs. Come on boy, play by the rules of proper debate.

[enwiabe]

Re: Charedi women, nice try but the work is minimal and considering that they're also forced to be the keepers of the houshold by their sexist religion, it only makes up a TINY portion of the massive hole blown in the budget by those ultra-orthodox leeches.

And furthermore, Israel came through the GFC because of its booming technology sector, don't kid yourself on that fact, and the Charedi have been riding the hard work of others for too long.

[Yitzi_K]

That's enough of the patronisation, thank you. You are free to consider me to be retarded but let's try keep personal views out of this discussion.

I never said I was using logic or facts, these are just my beliefs. So it probably won't make for a very good debate, but oh well, never mind, you'll just have to pour out your vitriol on some other poor person.

[Yitzi_K]

Oh, and sexist religion? Do continue...

[enwiabe]

That's enough of the patronisation, thank you. You are free to consider me to be retarded but let's try keep personal views out of this discussion.

I never said I was using logic or facts, these are just my beliefs. So it probably won't make for a very good debate, but oh well, never mind, you'll just have to pour out your vitriol on some other poor person.

I never said you were retarded, nor would I say that. I said you are deluded, and it's not patronisation, it's exasperation - that you won't see or cannot see or have been prevented from seeing how this religion has poisoned your mind.

It's extremely saddening for me to see someone as intelligent as you, who scored a 99.60 in his VCE, obviously displaying highly above average intellectual competence, fall prey to such a primitive belief system because that's what you were indoctrinated with before you could walk.

Ignoring logic or facts is not virtuous. That is how all our wars happen. When people don't stop, and think, and think carefully.

[enwiabe]

Oh, and sexist religion? Do continue...

Tell me how many orthodox rabbis are women. You're laughing if you don't think it's sexist.

See also how ONLY the husband can authorise a divorce.

[Yitzi_K]

You seem to be implying that the only way an intelligent person could believe is through indoctrination from youth. How then do you explain the phenomenon of highly intelligent people with no religious upbringing later in life finding belief?

[enwiabe]

You seem to be implying that the only way an intelligent person could believe is through indoctrination from youth. How then do you explain the phenomenon of highly intelligent people with no religious upbringing later in life finding belief?

They are few and far between, and with the exponential spread of knowledge, this phenomenon is becoming fewer and farther between. And they are deluded and susceptible to such beliefs for other reasons. Usually due to emotional vulnerabilities, fear of death, guilt of past wrongs etc.

[Yitzi_K]

Oh, and sexist religion? Do continue...

Tell me how many orthodox rabbis are women. You're laughing if you don't think it's sexist.

See also how ONLY the husband can authorise a divorce.

Judaism doesn't hold that men are better than women. Judaism holds that men are different to women. Men and women are different physically, chemically, emotionally and spiritually, and therefore have different roles to play. The women raise the children, and the men teach the children. Different roles, neither more or less worthwhile that the other.

Edit: Also, on the divorce issue: Research the 'Cherem of Rabbeinu Gershon'. I might ask that in future you research your points before raising them with factual incorrections. Also, as I'm sure your aware, a Beth Din these days does not have the power of corporal punishment, that is, except for one case alone: When a husband refuses to issue his wife a divorce, the Beth Din may beat him until he consents.

[enwiabe]

Oh, and sexist religion? Do continue...

Tell me how many orthodox rabbis are women. You're laughing if you don't think it's sexist.

See also how ONLY the husband can authorise a divorce.

Judaism doesn't hold that men are better than women. Judaism holds that men are different to women. Men and women are different physically, chemically, emotionally and spiritually, and therefore have different roles to play. The women raise the children, and the men teach the children. Different roles, neither more or less worthwhile that the other.

It's still sexism. Sexism is defined as discrimination based on gender. Women aren't allowed to teach because they are women. That is the DEFINITION of sexism, it doesn't matter -what- euphemisms you dress it up in.

That also doesn't explain why only MEN can authorise a divorce. How do you explain -that- one?