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Author Topic: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?  (Read 55296 times)  Share 

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paulsterio

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Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« on: October 16, 2011, 10:41:15 pm »
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Come across this on TheAge, what's your opinion on the issue?!

Do students need tutoring to succeed in the HSC?
(HSC Related, but very relevant to the VCE still)
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-question/do-students-need-tutoring-to-succeed-in-the-hsc-20111014-1loyq.html#ixzz1awasrT82

Some say tutors boost results; others say they can make it harder for students to think for themselves.
THE STUDENT JOEL REINES
I'VE had three tutors for five subjects this year. My mum is one of the vast majority of HSC parents who, according to Australian Tutoring Association figures, is in external tuition overdrive.
But no matter how much I am hothoused, my tutors aren't going to be sitting next to me in the exam room, so I am going to have to draw on my own knowledge and skills to get me through.
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Private tutors can be useful, especially if a student is facing difficulties in a subject, but you shouldn't rely on them as the magic solution to get you through the HSC. Being over-tutored can mean that students may lose the ability to do their own research, which is vital. Having information virtually fed to you on a platter will only get you so far.
It's interesting that the students who usually come top in the state aren't those who use coaching. Rather they are the ones who do extensive reading for themselves. This allows them to gain a greater understanding than what is in the textbook and is the key to their success.
At my school students are encouraged to do further reading on each topic and to think independently. The underlying message is that you have to fully embrace a subject to develop a passion for it, which naturally breeds success.
At this school the use of external tutors is discouraged. Teachers will organise one-on-one private lessons with students whose results are lacking, especially when they are preparing for a big assignment. This is a great system, since most teachers know their students' capabilities far better than an outside coach and they also have a vested interest in getting the best HSC results.
If a student finds their results are lacking in one particular subject then tutors should be used but there has to be a happy medium between using tutors to help a student get the best possible marks, and encouraging them to work harder for themselves. To avoid over-using tutors students should ask themselves: will extra tuition really improve my marks dramatically, or will I just become lazy by putting the burden of my school assignments on my coaches?
External tutoring may ''buy'' students a few extra marks, but learning how to be an independent researcher will ensure success in the HSC and beyond.
Joel Reines is a year 12 student at Reddam House, North Bondi.
THE PRINCIPAL JULIE GREENHALGH
FOR the most part, my advice to students is to avoid getting external tutoring as preparation for the HSC exams.
Classroom teachers who are well qualified, up-to-date with changes in syllabus requirements, experienced and hard working will provide all the assistance that is necessary for students to succeed at the HSC, so long as the students make the best use of their class time and take advantage of offers of additional help from their teachers.
The NSW Board of Studies gives an indication of the time needed to complete the HSC courses, and schools determine their timetables so that students have enough time to cover the work in class. However, sometimes, additional time and/or assistance is necessary.
Girls at Meriden are able to get additional assistance, if needed, from their teachers at lunch time and after school. Over the recent school holidays, many of the year 12 teachers have held additional classes, and girls have been emailing practice essays to their teachers on a very frequent basis. All this gives the girls the additional help that they may need. I imagine that most schools offer some form of additional assistance to their HSC students.
In my experience, students who have an external tutor tend to rely too heavily on the tutor. Rather than drawing on the expertise of their class teacher in an efficient way, these students do not use their class time well; nor do they take advantage of the out-of-class assistance that is being offered by the classroom teacher and the school.
Our school, for example, runs a maths centre where the girls in years 7 to 12 can get assistance from the maths staff after school at no additional cost.
The only time where a tutor may be of some assistance is when a student has missed a substantial amount of school. This may be through ill-health or for family reasons. This is the only time when I would recommend to parents that some short-term tutoring may be of help.
Dr Julie Greenhalgh is principal of Meriden School, Strathfield.
THE ADMINISTRATOR BRIAN CROKE
A TUTOR'S services are simply irrelevant to the success of most HSC students, although parental and peer-group insecurity is driving the expansion of a lucrative but unregulated tutoring industry. That is because an HSC cohort now comprises more than 70,000 students, each with different hopes and aspirations. They are tomorrow's teachers and nurses, farmers and mechanics, chefs and bureaucrats. Meeting their diverse curriculum needs involves a wide range of subjects, from classical Greek to tourism and events. Tutoring only caters for a small minority of subjects, namely those which students expect will improve their competitive entrance to a particular university option. For them the main game is not the HSC but the ATAR. Most HSC students judge their relative success in their own unique way and usually by whether or not the HSC opens the door to their preferred course of study. The HSC is designed for a culture which measures success in terms of personal goals and through mastery of a wide repertoire of knowledge and skills, not just by mastery of facts and time on task which are the virtues promoted by the tutoring industry.
The HSC is no sprint, requiring a tutor in the final stages to achieve a personal best. It is a two-year course of study involving assessments, practical projects and an examination. Most successful students learn best by engaging with their daily teacher, not deferring to their weekly tutor. Beyond the tutor's reach, the HSC also lets flourish high levels of creativity in music, visual arts, drama and design, not to mention the capacity for sophisticated work flowing from extension 2 English and extension history. Student success springs from confidence in knowing that they have met such demands by themselves and with their teachers' guidance.
Some students may benefit from targeted tutoring, but for many a dependence on tutoring for HSC success only adds undue stress. Year in, year out, successful students return to their schools to preach the same message to the next generation: keep a study/life balance, be realistic about your goals, set high expectations for yourself, work consistently, eat and sleep properly. Tutoring never rates a mention.
Brian Croke is executive director of the Catholic Education Commission, NSW.
THE TUTOR ROB PRIOR
WITH such fierce competition for university entrance, tutors and tutoring colleges fulfil a vital need for HSC students.
While some students have the ability to succeed without outside assistance, there are many factors that motivate students and parents to seek tutoring. It could be the student lacks the foundations necessary to cope with work presented to them in later years. Or perhaps they are having difficulty keeping pace with their peers and need specialised attention. Often it is simply that the student lacks the discipline and focus to maintain a committed approach to studying.
Many of the students we have tutored are very motivated and have high aspirations. Most are satisfied with the education they receive at school, but want to be challenged and exposed to the different perspectives tutoring can provide. They are also keen to be spurred on by healthy competition with like-minded students.
When I started tutoring in the mid-1970s, the demand was mainly for remedial assistance for students who were struggling with their studies. By the early '90s, an increasing number of students with lofty ambitions turned to tutoring to gain the best opportunity to enter high-end university courses, such as medicine, law and economics.
This period also marked a big expansion of multiculturalism, with education made a priority by parents who wanted their children to have a better life than they had. These parents felt that, even beyond enrolling their children in selective and private schools, extra tutoring could provide an advantage in the quest for tertiary entrance. Tutors offer personal attention, helping students to develop their understanding and skills, in order to approach school exams and the HSC with greater confidence.
To meet increasing demand, a growing number of options emerged and the tutoring industry gained momentum. Now a wide spectrum of tutoring opportunities are available, from one-on-one tutors and computer programs to structured courses offered by tutoring colleges such as ours.
Parents seeking tutoring for their children should consider the options and not be afraid to request a trial lesson before committing. This way, their child will feel empowered to choose the option that will work for them.
Robert Prior is the founder and principal of PRIOR Education Australia.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-question/do-students-need-tutoring-to-succeed-in-the-hsc-20111014-1loyq.html#ixzz1awaf7mO5

jane1234

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 10:52:08 pm »
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Hmm... I find it interesting that the principal says this:

Quote
Classroom teachers who are well qualified, up-to-date with changes in syllabus requirements, experienced and hard working will provide all the assistance that is necessary for students to succeed at the HSC, so long as the students make the best use of their class time and take advantage of offers of additional help from their teachers.

While that's true for the most part, there are some teachers that may be too busy/lazy to help, or might be just plain hopeless at explaining anything. I guess that's where tutoring would come in, to try and "fill in" what the teacher missed in class.
That said, if I had tutoring it probably wouldn't change my marks - but there are plenty of people doing the VCE who struggle to understand concepts AND have shitty teachers. Tutoring would certainly be helpful in that case.

paulsterio

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 11:03:03 pm »
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I'm with you Jane, that I think if I did any tutoring my marks wouldn't change, but that's because I'm speaking as someone who generally is OK with school work and find that I understand everything rather easily, plus I have friends who I can discuss things with and also communities such as ATARNotes.

I agree that tuition may help people who are struggling, but what I don't understand is why tuition has become the big business that it is, like I've heard of and know of tutors that are making well in excess of 1000 per week, some even make over 2000 per week, and I think that for the service they provide, they are making huge profits, now I think that's like taking advantage of students, like there's got to be a line drawn between a genuine desire to want to teach and tutor and tutoring for the raw purpose of making huge profits. I think that's a massive issue with the tutoring industry currently, not to mention that it's a cash economy too

jane1234

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 11:12:35 pm »
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Yeah but it's no different to how much some piano teachers will charge, or tap, or ballet, or whatever... they provide a service and students, or probably the parents, pay for this service. And I'm assuming both parties are happy with this agreement, or else they wouldn't get/give tutoring in the first place... I just don't reckon it's any worse than individual coaching for anything else. Sure, some tutors/companies employ fear tactics or whatever to get people to sign up, but there are so many dodgy ways of advertising in the world and I don't think tutoring is any worse than any of them.

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 11:21:25 pm »
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Some people do it for the sense of security as well
You dont really want any regrets when you do your Year 12, so if your parents offer to pay for your tutoring, guess it doesnt hurt

paulsterio

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2011, 11:23:06 pm »
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Hmmm, yeah I guess I understand what you mean, but I have a particularly extreme example. There's this guy called Jack in Springvale, who tutors classes of about 60 kids, at a rate of 25 dollars for two hours. That equates to 60 x 25 = $1500
That's $750 per hour, where else can I earn that sort of money?! :O

Like I understand that what he's doing is fine, albeit illegal because of tax evasion, but is it ethical for him to provide a tuition service where there is basically no quality control and where his knowledge is questionable, I remembering one of my friends pulling me along to one of his lessons and we (Jack and I) had an argument over whether sec(-x) and sec(x) are the same thing, they obviously are, but he denied it - that's forever changed my view of the tutoring business, albeit I'll admit I haven't been to much tuition at all, so I can't really comment :)

But you catch my drift yeah? :D

Some people do it for the sense of security as well
You dont really want any regrets when you do your Year 12, so if your parents offer to pay for your tutoring, guess it doesnt hurt

It doesn't hurt - but it's a big use of your time :P

jane1234

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2011, 11:27:28 pm »
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Hmmm, yeah I guess I understand what you mean, but I have a particularly extreme example. There's this guy called Jack in Springvale, who tutors classes of about 60 kids, at a rate of 25 dollars for two hours. That equates to 60 x 25 = $1500
That's $750 per hour, where else can I earn that sort of money?! :O

Like I understand that what he's doing is fine, albeit illegal because of tax evasion, but is it ethical for him to provide a tuition service where there is basically no quality control and where his knowledge is questionable, I remembering one of my friends pulling me along to one of his lessons and we (Jack and I) had an argument over whether sec(-x) and sec(x) are the same thing, they obviously are, but he denied it - that's forever changed my view of the tutoring business, albeit I'll admit I haven't been to much tuition at all, so I can't really comment :)

But you catch my drift yeah? :D

Wow, that's just stupid. I have no problem with tutors or how much money they make, but to argue that (when it can be easily proved using a calculator) is just plain wrong. If they are going to tutor, they should at least know what they're on about...

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 11:32:54 pm »
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I for one know that tutoring hindered my capacity for self-development and learning "for many years" cause I was literally spoon fed.

Say No to Tutoring. Say Yes to Independent Learning!

Fuck Tutor. You've got internet etc.... "The world is your oyster"
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paulsterio

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 11:34:20 pm »
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The thing with tuition is there's no requirement of any qualifications or such, so here's this guy who basically did year 12 about ten years ago, going on to do a uni degree in an area completely unrelated to maths, and now he's tutoring maths, and that's not the only thing, he has a lot of conceptual errors which I think are unacceptable, but the difference between a tutor and a teacher is that teachers generally have to go through checks to ensure that they are qualified whereas tutors don't

Btw Jane, I like your quote from Pocahontas in your sig :)

I for one know that tutoring hindered my capacity for self-development and learning, "for many years" cause I was literally spoon fed.

Say No to Tutoring. Say Yes to Independent Learning!

Fuck Tutor. You've got internet etc.... "The world is your oyster"

I agree with you, it's never good to be spoonfed :)

taiga

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 11:35:06 pm »
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Will be honest, I think my parents sent me to tutoring partially because they wanted to feel like they tried their best for my education.

Was it that helpful? Probably not, but that's because I didn't take advantage of it (asking questions regularly etc). I just saw it as a waste of a good 2-3 hours a week. I think tutoring is really only applicable to some types of learners, and I definitely wasn't one of the people that fell into the category.

Just on a side note, I've heard a lot of good things about Jack, perhaps he was just off his game that day. There's some rumour going around that he got busted for tax evasion and ended up paying back what he owed in 20 dollar notes :P

I'm not sure what your problem with tutors making 'profits' is though, I don't think it is tutors that take advantage of students to do this. It is moreso the big companies that run monopolies or use fear inducing tactics to get students.

1000 dollars a week for a full time tutor is very reasonable I like to think. I tutor for about 6 hours a week and earn ~200, so if they are having it as their full time job, 1000 is very reasonable. And even if it was 5000, as long as they aren't manipulating students, I don't think it's a problem.


(btw just scimmed over what people were writing, so might have misinterpreted what you had to say, if so it's my bad :P)
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paulsterio

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2011, 11:41:26 pm »
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Yeah I get what you mean, my parents have mixed views on tuition, but generally they're of the notion that it's just too much money (and I'm quite happy with that because that means that I don't have to go) :D

I've heard some good things about Jack as well, but also some bad things, when you're tutoring as many kids as he is, you're bound to get mixed reviews :P but i've heard that rumour as well, apparently he has a massive safe in his house where he keeps all his money! :P

I don't have an issue with tutors making profits, I just think that sometimes it's a bit too much, not to mention companies such as TSFX (who have dodgy marketing tactics that involves spamming my email inbox with offers - I feel like reporting them :P) and then there's MedEntry and other UMAT companies who make massive profits from manipulating students to use their products, fear tactics and such :)
But I think that it's fine for tutors to make profits, not just when there seems to be some sort of manipulation involved, so I think we're on the same note :)


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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2011, 11:57:46 pm »
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I heard Jack was amazing but never liked group tutoring, much prefer private tutoring. I found them fairly useful last yr (can't say the same for uni tutors tho :P), infact I learnt how awesome maths was from my maths tutor.

But were they really that helpful? idk, i hardly slack off during tuition and to me going to tutor is like going to a library, it prevents you from procrastinating. If i spent the time travelling to and back from tutor + the time in the actual tuition i can prob achieve the same result.
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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 12:45:55 am »
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I don't think tutors can ever replace school teachers. They can help though.
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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2011, 05:46:31 am »
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some do, some don't, different people learn differently

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Re: Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 02:52:44 am »
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I'd say most of the 99.5+ kids in my year didn't have tutors...
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