30 in spesh = hard?

[jordanclyde]

What do you guys think?
What scores would be needed for a 30 raw?

[david10d]

30 is considered average, so you're probably looking for B's for your GA 1, 2 and 3 to be safe. that will probably give you a 32

[Special At Specialist]

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is a common misconception.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all, so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented", then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

[luken93]

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is a common misconception.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all, so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented", then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

I don't want to be at all rude here, but having sat the subject, it is quite a difficult indeed to achieve high scores.

Firstly, the standard of students is a lot higher and more concentrated. You are basically taking the "better kids" out of methods and stretching them out into a separate cohort, therefore making it quite a hard cohort to compete against. This is reflected in the A+ cutoffs of the two subjects, they are basically the same, and yet spesh is a harder subject.

I'm not saying it's not possible to do well in, not at all. But it does require a certain amount of ability, work and speed throughout to achieve good scores. You don't just "get" a 35 in spesh so to speak, it comes with a lot of work from very capable students.

I don't want to sound patronising, but there is a huge disparity when you get into the top half of students, and you will no doubt discover it when you get into exam season next year. You're talking about arguably the best of the best kids in their own speciality, it is NOT easy.

/end rant, sorry.

[Special At Specialist]

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is a common misconception.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all, so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented", then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

I don't want to be at all rude here, but having sat the subject, it is quite a difficult indeed to achieve high scores.

Firstly, the standard of students is a lot higher and more concentrated. You are basically taking the "better kids" out of methods and stretching them out into a separate cohort, therefore making it quite a hard cohort to compete against. This is reflected in the A+ cutoffs of the two subjects, they are basically the same, and yet spesh is a harder subject.

I'm not saying it's not possible to do well in, not at all. But it does require a certain amount of ability, work and speed throughout to achieve good scores. You don't just "get" a 35 in spesh so to speak, it comes with a lot of work from very capable students.

I don't want to sound patronising, but there is a huge disparity when you get into the top half of students, and you will no doubt discover it when you get into exam season next year. You're talking about arguably the best of the best kids in their own speciality, it is NOT easy.

/end rant, sorry.

I see what you're saying. By no means is a 40+ an easy score to achieve, since so many people aim for such high scores that the competition is quite extreme. But on the other hand, there are a selection of people who only joined specialist because they "need" it for their university course or whatever and they really aren't that interested in maths at all.

I like to consider it like this:
20-25 = Average, maybe slightly below average at maths.
25-30 = Slightly above average at maths, but not all that interested in it.
30-35 = Above average, fairly competent and fairly interested.
35-40 = Good at maths and hard-working student.
40-45 = Very good at maths, competent and enthusiastic about maths.
45-50 = Elite mathematician, highly competitive, dedicated and very enthusiastic.

[tony3272]

The reality is that you're competing against the state, so you want to do well relative to them.

A study score of:
30 - You're ahead of 50% of the state
35 - You're ahead of 75% of the state
38 - You're ahead of 90% of the state
40 - You're ahead of 92% of the state
45 - You're ahead of 98% of the state
50 - You're pro.

[dc302]

i don't think you "need" specialist for any subject, maybe only some universities for engineering etc.

The vast majority of kids who do specialist enjoy maths and are good at it. In the state, the lower methods kids are probably "average" in terms of mathematical ability (including further, those who don't do math). The "higher" methods kids generally do spesh.

So those who do spesh can be considered the "best"
To achieve say 35, you're in the upper quartile of the "best"
and are thus the "best" of the "best"

While you don't 'need' spesh, it is one of the subjects in VCE that has an equivalent uni subject. It will basically free up one subject in your uni degree if you major/specialise in one of: physics, mathematics, computer science, engineering.

Another bonus that I personally found is, if you know your spesh, you pretty much know your methods (minus the probability component). I pretty much never studied methods, ever, and only spesh, and ended up with a decent score in both.

[BorisPeters]

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is a common misconception.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all, so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented", then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

I'll fix that for you:

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject which it is, and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is common misconception knowledge. Even though I have't actually done the course yet, I think I can provide you with an accurate analysis of it.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all and I can confirm this even though I've probably never actually spoken to one in real life , so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented" , then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

1. Specialist Maths students are the absolute best of the best mathematicians in the state to begin with. The course is super long and probably has twice as much content as your average other subject, getting a 30 scales to 41 this year which means that a getting a 30 is Specialist is as difficult being in the top 8% of the average subject.

2. There are no students doing Spesh just because they need it. Wtf are you on about?

3. The average Spesh student isn't that bright? Most of us get 95+ Atars, the f you on about?  Obviously Spesh is not that hard if you neglect every other subject and spend the whole year focusing on once subject, but what the hell is the point of that, you get a bad ATAR that way. TO achieve good results in your other subjects and in Specialist maths is a difficult thing to do. What the hell is the purpose of neglecting your other subjects to get a 50 in Spesh? It backfires in your ATAR.

Honestly mate, shut up and talk about the course after you've actually done it.

[nbhindi]

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is a common misconception.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all, so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented", then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

I'll fix that for you:

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject which it is, and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is common misconception knowledge. Even though I have't actually done the course yet, I think I can provide you with an accurate analysis of it.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all and I can confirm this even though I've probably never actually spoken to one in real life , so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented" , then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

1. Specialist Maths students are the absolute best of the best mathematicians in the state to begin with. The course is super long and probably has twice as much content as your average other subject, getting a 30 scales to 41 this year which means that a getting a 30 is Specialist is as difficult being in the top 8% of the average subject.

2. There are no students doing Spesh just because they need it. Wtf are you on about?

3. The average Spesh student isn't that bright? Most of us get 95+ Atars, the f you on about?  Obviously Spesh is not that hard if you neglect every other subject and spend the whole year focusing on once subject, but what the hell is the point of that, you get a bad ATAR that way. TO achieve good results in your other subjects and in Specialist maths is a difficult thing to do. What the hell is the purpose of neglecting your other subjects to get a 50 in Spesh? It backfires in your ATAR.

Honestly mate, shut up and talk about the course after you've actually done it.

U MAD? 

[Truck]

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is a common misconception.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all, so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented", then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

I'll fix that for you:

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject which it is, and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is common misconception knowledge. Even though I have't actually done the course yet, I think I can provide you with an accurate analysis of it.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all and I can confirm this even though I've probably never actually spoken to one in real life , so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented" , then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

1. Specialist Maths students are the absolute best of the best mathematicians in the state to begin with. The course is super long and probably has twice as much content as your average other subject, getting a 30 scales to 41 this year which means that a getting a 30 is Specialist is as difficult being in the top 8% of the average subject.

2. There are no students doing Spesh just because they need it. Wtf are you on about?

3. The average Spesh student isn't that bright? Most of us get 95+ Atars, the f you on about?  Obviously Spesh is not that hard if you neglect every other subject and spend the whole year focusing on once subject, but what the hell is the point of that, you get a bad ATAR that way. TO achieve good results in your other subjects and in Specialist maths is a difficult thing to do. What the hell is the purpose of neglecting your other subjects to get a 50 in Spesh? It backfires in your ATAR.

Honestly mate, shut up and talk about the course after you've actually done it.

Lol, someone had to put him in his place .

[BorisPeters]

A lot of people think that specialist is a really hard subject and that getting a 30 is quite difficult: that is a common misconception.
The average specialist student really isn't that bright at all, so if you consider yourself to be "mathematically talented", then you should be able to get at least a 35 in specialist.

I don't want to be at all rude here, but having sat the subject, it is quite a difficult indeed to achieve high scores.

Firstly, the standard of students is a lot higher and more concentrated. You are basically taking the "better kids" out of methods and stretching them out into a separate cohort, therefore making it quite a hard cohort to compete against. This is reflected in the A+ cutoffs of the two subjects, they are basically the same, and yet spesh is a harder subject.

I'm not saying it's not possible to do well in, not at all. But it does require a certain amount of ability, work and speed throughout to achieve good scores. You don't just "get" a 35 in spesh so to speak, it comes with a lot of work from very capable students.

I don't want to sound patronising, but there is a huge disparity when you get into the top half of students, and you will no doubt discover it when you get into exam season next year. You're talking about arguably the best of the best kids in their own speciality, it is NOT easy.

/end rant, sorry.

I see what you're saying. By no means is a 40+ an easy score to achieve, since so many people aim for such high scores that the competition is quite extreme. But on the other hand, there are a selection of people who only joined specialist because they "need" it for their university course or whatever and they really aren't that interested in maths at all.

I like to consider it like this:
20-25 = Average, maybe slightly below average at maths.
25-30 = Slightly above average at maths, but not all that interested in it.
30-35 = Above average, fairly competent and fairly interested.
35-40 = Good at maths and hard-working student.
40-45 = Very good at maths, competent and enthusiastic about maths.
45-50 = Elite mathematician, highly competitive, dedicated and very enthusiastic.

<30 represents half the kids doing Specialist maths,

For you to say that half the kids doing Spesh are slightly above average, not that interested in it is an absolute joke. OP, disregard this guy he has no clue. Elite mathematician, highly competitive? You have no clue mate. Wait and til you actually are juggling 5-6 subjects.

[Special At Specialist]

For you to say that half the kids doing Spesh are slightly above average, not that interested in it is an absolute joke. OP, disregard this guy he has no clue. Elite mathematician, highly competitive? You have no clue mate. Wait and til you actually are juggling 5-6 subjects.
[/quote]

25+ constitutes about 75% of people in that subject, not 50%. Infact, I think that about 80-85% of people in specialist maths are above average for their age, whether marginally above or extremely high above.
And I've met 10 year olds who can do calculus. If you're trying to tell me that an 18 year old who can solve a differential equation is awesome at maths, then you have a pretty distorted view on what it means to be "the best of the best".

"Most of us get 95+ Atars, the f you on about?"
I would bet anything that you're wrong there. Perhaps 90+, but not 95+.

[david10d]

For you to say that half the kids doing Spesh are slightly above average, not that interested in it is an absolute joke. OP, disregard this guy he has no clue. Elite mathematician, highly competitive? You have no clue mate. Wait and til you actually are juggling 5-6 subjects.

25+ constitutes about 75% of people in that subject, not 50%. Infact, I think that about 80-85% of people in specialist maths are above average for their age, whether marginally above or extremely high above.
And I've met 10 year olds who can do calculus. If you're trying to tell me that an 18 year old who can solve a differential equation is awesome at maths, then you have a pretty distorted view on what it means to be "the best of the best".

hyperbole?

[xZero]

For you to say that half the kids doing Spesh are slightly above average, not that interested in it is an absolute joke. OP, disregard this guy he has no clue. Elite mathematician, highly competitive? You have no clue mate. Wait and til you actually are juggling 5-6 subjects.

25+ constitutes about 75% of people in that subject, not 50%. Infact, I think that about 80-85% of people in specialist maths are above average for their age, whether marginally above or extremely high above.
And I've met 10 year olds who can do calculus. If you're trying to tell me that an 18 year old who can solve a differential equation is awesome at maths, then you have a pretty distorted view on what it means to be "the best of the best".

I read on the newspaper that theres a 10 yr old kid in china going to university doing maths, whoa everyone whos doing vce beyond 10 yrs old must be shit! love your logic there

[Special At Specialist]

For you to say that half the kids doing Spesh are slightly above average, not that interested in it is an absolute joke. OP, disregard this guy he has no clue. Elite mathematician, highly competitive? You have no clue mate. Wait and til you actually are juggling 5-6 subjects.

25+ constitutes about 75% of people in that subject, not 50%. Infact, I think that about 80-85% of people in specialist maths are above average for their age, whether marginally above or extremely high above.
And I've met 10 year olds who can do calculus. If you're trying to tell me that an 18 year old who can solve a differential equation is awesome at maths, then you have a pretty distorted view on what it means to be "the best of the best".

I read on the newspaper that theres a 10 yr old kid in china going to university doing maths, whoa everyone whos doing vce beyond 10 yrs old must be shit! love your logic there
[/quote]

Don't try to use the straw man argument against me. If I've met several people in this state between the ages of 10-14 who can do year 12 calculus, then there are probably 100 times as many whom I haven't yet met, and since there are only 4000 people doing specialist maths per year level, the figures are looking pretty good.
Also, let me give you another analogy:
Out of year 12 VCE students:
About 50% of people have watched a chess game.
About 20% of people have played a chess game, knowing all the rules of chess.
About 2% of people are eligible to join the interschool chess tournaments.
Out of that 2%, there are about 100 people, so that would mean that the winner is better than 99.98% of people his/her age.
I came 1st place in the last chess tournament.
Does that make me a super awesome chess genius by your standards?