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April 10, 2026, 10:47:41 am

Author Topic: VCE Methods Question Thread!  (Read 6009243 times)  Share 

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Eiffel

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8475 on: February 07, 2015, 02:35:47 pm »
0
how to find the anti derivative of x/x+1 ?

pi

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8476 on: February 07, 2015, 02:37:59 pm »
+1
for the anti derivative of 1/ax+b why must there be an absolute value sign e.g. 1/a loge|...| ?

i know it needs to be greater then 0 but is there a reason? indefinite?

I'd suggest you graph an example of 1/(ax+b) and then graphically draw the anti-derivatives without any algebra. You'll convince yourself why this is the case :)

how to find the anti derivative of x/x+1 ?

Please don't double-post.

Anyway,

x/(x+1) = (x+1-1)/(x+1) = 1 - 1/(x+1)

You can now anti-differentiate that easily.

Also I'd like to draw your attention to PSA: WolframAlpha step-by-step solutions I think it will help you a lot :)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:40:08 pm by pi »

Eiffel

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8477 on: February 07, 2015, 02:49:45 pm »
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alright thanks, ill suss that link out later.

is that slitting of fractions a "trick" i need to know, just like when using product rule and taking a common factor out?


additionally, if i have a question like 2x+1/x+1 and asked to anti diff.
why cannot
2{ x+1/x+1 dx
2{ 1 dx
2 x + c
2x + c be an answer? how do you know what to split it to
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:53:03 pm by Eiffel »

pi

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8478 on: February 07, 2015, 02:55:06 pm »
+1
is that slitting of fractions a "trick" i need to know, just like when using product rule and taking a common factor out?

Splitting fractions like that is a fairly rudimentary algebraic manipulation, definitely worth knowing and utilising.

additionally, if i have a question like 2x+1/x+1 and asked to anti diff.
why cannot
2{ x+1/x+1 dx
2{ 1 dx
2 x + c
2x + c be an answer? how do you know what to split it to


Um, looking at your numerator, 2(x+1) = 2x+2 =/= 2x +1. Hence it doesn't work as you didn't factorise out the 2 correctly.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:56:39 pm by pi »

Eiffel

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8479 on: February 07, 2015, 03:54:57 pm »
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ah right cheers.

This is bit of a "simple" question however just looking back at logs i seem to have forgotten a few things.

e.g. if log2(5) = log2(5) , why can the log 2 cancel out and x = 5.

this brings me to x = log2(5)/log2(6) , why cannot the answer be 5/6?

pi

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8480 on: February 07, 2015, 04:38:46 pm »
+1
e.g. if log2(5) = log2(5) , why can the log 2 cancel out and x = 5.

Where did you pull out 'x' from?

If you mean: log2(x) = log2(5), we're not "cancelling" out logs.



For your second question,



Revise your log laws from the textbook, you can't simply cancel out logs.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 04:42:08 pm by pi »

psyxwar

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8481 on: February 07, 2015, 04:40:01 pm »
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ah right cheers.

This is bit of a "simple" question however just looking back at logs i seem to have forgotten a few things.

e.g. if log2(5) = log2(5) , why can the log 2 cancel out and x = 5.

this brings me to x = log2(5)/log2(6) , why cannot the answer be 5/6?

Let's use an analogy. Consider the function y=f(x), and let's also assume it is a one-to-one function (just like the logarithmic and exponential functions).




This is because with a one-to-one function, every x value maps to a unique y value. That is, the value 'f(5)' can only be obtained by subbing in 5 into f(x). This is not the case for many-to-one functions -- consider for example. g(2)=4, but you'll see that both x=2 and x=-2 will give us this same y-value.

Because the logarithm is a one-to-one function, every x value must then map to a unique y value.

Let's go back to your example:



The only way to get to a value of using a logarithm of base 2 is if the value is 5.

Okay great. Let's look at .

Hopefully, you're aware that . Well I mean it could under some cases equal that (for example, if f(x)=x), but generally this isn't going to hold true. The same applies to logarithms -- they are a function like any other, so you can't just do what you did.
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Eiffel

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8482 on: February 07, 2015, 06:37:56 pm »
-1
Let's use an analogy. Consider the function y=f(x), and let's also assume it is a one-to-one function (just like the logarithmic and exponential functions).




This is because with a one-to-one function, every x value maps to a unique y value. That is, the value 'f(5)' can only be obtained by subbing in 5 into f(x). This is not the case for many-to-one functions -- consider for example. g(2)=4, but you'll see that both x=2 and x=-2 will give us this same y-value.

Because the logarithm is a one-to-one function, every x value must then map to a unique y value.

Let's go back to your example:



The only way to get to a value of using a logarithm of base 2 is if the value is 5.

Okay great. Let's look at .

Hopefully, you're aware that . Well I mean it could under some cases equal that (for example, if f(x)=x), but generally this isn't going to hold true. The same applies to logarithms -- they are a function like any other, so you can't just do what you did.


Thanks psyxwar, that cleared it up!

Where did you pull out 'x' from?

If you mean: log2(x) = log2(5), we're not "cancelling" out logs.



For your second question,



Revise your log laws from the textbook, you can't simply cancel out logs.

sorry, that is meant to be an x. May i ask how
 - goes to log6(5)

Thanks

pi

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8483 on: February 07, 2015, 06:45:04 pm »
+2
May i ask how
Thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logarithmic_identities#Changing_the_base

I'm sure that concept is also clearly explained with examples in your textbook
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 06:49:04 pm by pi »

knightrider

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8484 on: February 07, 2015, 07:19:26 pm »
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f(g(x)), so we want the numbers coming out of g to go into f.
Range of g: [0, infinity)
Domain of f: R\{-a}

As long as we pick a to be positive, then the domain of f will also have a [0, infinity) in it (notice in the domain of f, we take the negative part?). So, the answer is

Thanks eulerfan101 :)
You know how you said wouldnt it be

since the range of g is  [0, infinity)

so in order for this to be a subset of the domain of f wouldn't a have to be

keltingmeith

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8485 on: February 07, 2015, 07:52:21 pm »
+3
Thanks eulerfan101 :)
You know how you said wouldnt it be

since the range of g is  [0, infinity)

so in order for this to be a subset of the domain of f wouldn't a have to be
No - including 0 would disclude it from the domain, so the domain of f wouldn't have the 0 that's in the range of g, so f(g(0))=f(0) would be undefined.

knightrider

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8486 on: February 07, 2015, 08:06:56 pm »
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No - including 0 would disclude it from the domain, so the domain of f wouldn't have the 0 that's in the range of g, so f(g(0))=f(0) would be undefined.

Thanks eulerfan101 :)

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8487 on: February 07, 2015, 08:20:20 pm »
+1
Thanks eulerfan101 :)
You know how you said wouldnt it be

since the range of g is  [0, infinity)

so in order for this to be a subset of the domain of f wouldn't a have to be

One thing you should to be careful about is that is a set operator, it operates on sets.
is surely a set, but is not, so we have to write .

warya

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8488 on: February 07, 2015, 08:57:56 pm »
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Can someone help me with this question

2^(x-1)=3^(x+a )                       for a, where a is an element of R

and this one

log7(x)=log4(p) for x
http://i.imgur.com/VK9S9ET.gif

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keltingmeith

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Re: VCE Methods Question Thread!
« Reply #8489 on: February 07, 2015, 09:24:40 pm »
+2
Can someone help me with this question

2^(x-1)=3^(x+a )                       for a, where a is an element of R

and this one

log7(x)=log4(p) for x

For the first:



And second: