Private schools are unfair? Discussion of a TABOO topic [SPLIT]

[IndefatigableLover]

There's racial violence and stabbings at JMSS?

Not that I know of.. I'm heading there next year but the current school I attend had some racial tension going on for about a term (and probably still going) and some guy from my year level stabbed another kid younger than him with a screwdriver.. >.<

[slothpomba]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_of_outcome VS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_of_opportunity <--- Important here.

I know some people who have gone to absolutely terrible schools (eg. parents showing up with baseball bats during lunch because of what a kid did) and got in the 90s. We have inflated standards here but anything over 70 or 80 is very well done i think, at least in terms of actually getting you into a university and getting you a degree.

Education is one of the strongest promotors of social mobility. Myself and almost all of my friends had parents from working class backgrounds (no uni degrees here folks) and a fair few didn't even finish highschool. For us, even finishing highschool or getting into any university is an achievement in itself. I think we've progressed in leaps and bounds.

30 or 40 years ago, only about 3% of people had a uni degree, now its hovering around 30%. We're clearly doing something right.

I think in terms of once you get into university, its pretty equal. Even if your atar score is somehow wholly to blame on your schools (not likely) failings, there are still pathways to get into uni and get where you want. Hell, if you work hard enough you can transfer into the GO8 from pretty much any uni or into law or something insane like that.

TL;DR Good school helps, everyone should be given an equal chance but everyone shouldn't be given an equal outcome just because they feel entitled or want to pin all their problems on a horrible school. To be honest, if you wanted to get into uni, it isn't terribly hard. I think almost all those that wanted to and put their head in the game, did. Of course there are kids that didn't get into uni but plenty of those never wanted to go or needed to go in the first place.

[paulsterio]

It's on page 165.
$10,500 per student is a guide to the funding of schools. If all the money currently given to private schools was diverted to public schools, and if all the private school students changed to public schools, there would be more than $10,500 annually available to each of them.

You misunderstand the argument, however, the truth is, it's not an issue of money and funding. You can allocate money to public schools, but will that necessarily benefit students more, you haven't addressed this.

Secondly, no matter how much money is pumped into some schools, you won't get results because no amount of money, equipment or fancy stuff will turn someone who has no interest in education into someone who loves to learn.

[brenden]

There's racial violence and stabbings at JMSS?

He gained entrance in 2012, he begins attending next year.

[HighLatency]

There's racial violence and stabbings at JMSS?

Not that I know of.. I'm heading there next year but the current school I attend had some racial tension going on for about a term (and probably still going) and some guy from my year level stabbed another kid younger than him with a screwdriver.. >.<

What the fuck? A year 9 kid? Screwdriver?
How injured was the victim? Hopefully he's fine but that other guy certainly is not and needs help >.>

[brenden]

RE: Paul, MH was addressing Russ' inquiries as to the Gonski report. His original post was addressing the improvements of education but rather minimizing people 'buying education.' You second point is relevant.
HL, your surprise amuses me.

[IndefatigableLover]

What the fuck? A year 9 kid? Screwdriver?
How injured was the victim? Hopefully he's fine but that other guy certainly is not and needs help >.>

Unfortunately the victim's name was disclosed from all of us but we were told he was doing fine. We weren't told about the Year 9 kid either but he himself confirmed the rumours. However he's essentially a 'highschool dropout' (Sorry for the rude comment) but that's just what he is. He wasn't expelled but was suspended for a while but is back at school though I only see him at school like once every 2 weeks due to him wagging school :S

[HighLatency]

Our school has only had fights at worst in 1 vs 1 male hormone rage but I have never encountered shit like screwdriver stabbings. Especially with year 9s stabbing someone a year younger than him (to be fairly honest if that happened at our school the year 9 would've been stoned to death by the senior students). Only a suspension? What. People get expelled for not wearing correct uniform at other places. He is a clearly a violent element and I am concerned for the students that have to go to the school as him.
What if he stabbed him in the eye? By accident or on purpose...

[MonsieurHulot]

It's on page 165.
$10,500 per student is a guide to the funding of schools. If all the money currently given to private schools was diverted to public schools, and if all the private school students changed to public schools, there would be more than $10,500 annually available to each of them.

You misunderstand the argument, however, the truth is, it's not an issue of money and funding. You can allocate money to public schools, but will that necessarily benefit students more, you haven't addressed this.

Secondly, no matter how much money is pumped into some schools, you won't get results because no amount of money, equipment or fancy stuff will turn someone who has no interest in education into someone who loves to learn.

I wholeheartedly agree. Money cannot solve all problems in education. A student who does not want to learn will not learn in a run-down public school or a brand-new private school. However, money can fix some problems. My school is a public school that ranks pretty lowly on the Year 12 results table. Not to say that it is a bad school, the teachers care and try their best, for the most part. But when classes have to be shuffled because the roof is leaking, or there is no money left in the printing budget, or the school internet is down for days at a time, the resulting environment is not one particularly conducive to study. All these problems could be fixed by more money.
A private school some of my friends attend have none of these problems, in fact, a new wing of their school is being built right now. Perhaps things are not as they seem, and that school raised the money through tireless volunteer work, but most likely not. I do not feel that private schools should receive any government funding. Private schools, in my opinion, should be there to provide a special, minority education; such as a religious one. Public schools should be able to provide a high quality education. My school does not.

[IndefatigableLover]

Our school has only had fights at worst in 1 vs 1 male hormone rage but I have never encountered shit like screwdriver stabbings. Especially with year 9s stabbing someone a year younger than him (to be fairly honest if that happened at our school the year 9 would've been stoned to death by the senior students). Only a suspension? What. People get expelled for not wearing correct uniform at other places. He is a clearly a violent element and I am concerned for the students that have to go to the school as him.
What if he stabbed him in the eye? By accident or on purpose...

Expelled for not wearing the correct attire? That's harsh.. at my school, they wear hoodies to school and bring bags to classes and they get nothing (No suspension, expulsion).
As for stabbing him in the eye? Probably be sued and expelled for that. I remember the vice-principal saying that we weren't allowed to throw airplanes inside a classroom since it hit a guy one time and they tried to sue the school for compensation.. never heard the end of that story as well.

[JellyDonut]

There's racial violence and stabbings at JMSS?

Not that I know of.. I'm heading there next year but the current school I attend had some racial tension going on for about a term (and probably still going) and some guy from my year level stabbed another kid younger than him with a screwdriver.. >.<

It was a (not very well thought of) joke  lol

[ninwa]

I went to a private school and some guy got expelled for threatening to lock us up in classrooms and gas all of us

aint limited to public schools yo

[HighLatency]

I went to a private school and some guy got expelled for threatening to lock us up in classrooms and gas all of us

aint limited to public schools yo

For real or a joke taken too far? Doesn't seem plausible when classrooms have windows o.o
But yeah he got expelled for being potentially dangerous. Whereas that guy with the screwdriver was definitely a hazard who only got suspended what dafuq.

[Bhootnike]

I skimmed over so apologies if its already been mentioned,
but i think one thing that public schools lack sometimes is a strong culture than  private schools bring.
Im not saying public schools have NO culture at all, but in most cases, the learning culture is better than public schools.
and thats probably one advantage in terms of education; the facilities you get and stuff..

[ninwa]

For real or a joke taken too far? Doesn't seem plausible when classrooms have windows o.o
But yeah he got expelled for being potentially dangerous. Whereas that guy with the screwdriver was definitely a hazard who only got suspended what dafuq.

He was sent to a mental institution for a bit so I think it was "for real" but he was mentally ill