Zionism

[thushan]

I'll answer that for him, he's talked to me about it, and yes he believes Israel should exist - he just wants Israel to stop massacring civilians and committing genocide.

That right Mr Politiks?

[enwiabe]

I'll answer that for him, he's talked to me about it, and yes he believes Israel should exist - he just wants Israel to stop massacring civilians and committing genocide.

That right Mr Politiks?

"committing genocide"

The Palestinian population has doubled in the last 20 years. Given Israel has a nuclear arsenal that could end the world four times over, they're either grossly incompetent at this goal, or this is nothing but disgusting hyperbole.

In fact, Palestine's mortality rate is literally nearly half Australia's. That's right, more people per capita die in Australia than Gaza and West Bank.

Australian mortality rate: 6.68 deaths per 1000 population. Palestinian mortality rate: 3.58 deaths per 1000 population.

This really just shows mr. politiks warped view of reality. He does not deal in facts. He has an imagined view of Israel that he will spout to anyone that will listen. This view does not jive with facts. When presented with facts, he simply turns tail and runs in another direction to attack.

[thushan]

The entire basis for this debate is whether or not the IDF actively terrorises civilians. Those who claim that when it does, investigations are launched, and themselves claim that they can POST the links for these investigations, could you please post the link for the investigation that followed this attack:

 

Over the past 72 hours, the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) have escalated their aerial and ground attacks against the Gaza Strip.  Five Palestinian civilians, including 3 children, have been killed, and 52 others, including 6 women and 12 children, have been wounded.  Four of these deaths and 38 of the injuries resulted from an Israeli attack on a football playground in al-Shoja’iya neighborhood east of Gaza City.  Additionally, 2 members of the Palestinian resistance were killed, and some civilian facilities were destroyed or damaged.

 

 

According to investigations conducted by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR), at approximately 15:30 on Saturday, 10 November 2012, Israeli military vehicles stationed at the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel fired an artillery shell at a number of Palestinian children who were playing football at al-Mentar Hill east of al-Shoja’iya neighborhood, which is east of Gaza City and nearly 1,500 meters away from the border.  As a result, 2 children were instantly killed:

 

1- Mohammed Ussama Hassan Harara (16); and

2- Ahmed Mustafa Khaled Harara (17).

 

Following this attack, a number of Palestinian civilians, who were gathered to mourn a bereaved in the house of the Harara family, rushed to the area, where the IOF immediately fired another 3 shells.  As a result, 2 Palestinian civilians were instantly killed:

 

1- Ahmed Kamel Al- Dirdissawi (18); and

2- Matar ‘Emad ‘Abdul Rahman Abu al-‘Ata (19).

 

Additionally, 38 civilians, including 8 children, were wounded; the wounding of 10 of these civilians was described by medical crews as being serious.

 

Earlier, on Thursday evening, 08 November 2012, the IOF killed a Palestinian child during an incursion in the ‘Abassan village, east of the southern Gaza Strip town of Khan Yunis.  According to investigations conducted by PCHR, at approximately 16:30 on Thursday, as a result of the indiscriminate shooting by IOF military vehicles that had moved into the ‘Abassan village, 13-year-old Ahmed Younis Khader Abu Daqqa was seriously wounded by a bullet to the abdomen.  At the time he was shot, Ahmed had been playing football with his friends in front of his family’s house, located nearly 1,200 meters away from the area where the IOF were present.  He was evacuated to the European Gaza Hospital in Khan Yunis, but he was pronounced dead 15 minutes later. 

source: http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8978:new-israeli-escalation-against-the-gaza-strip-7-palestinians-including-3-children-killed-and-52-others-including-6-women-and-12-children-wounded-&catid=145:in-focus#

It was this agression by the IDF that led to the latest escalation (which was followed by operation Pillar of Cloud). There are many more such incidences, but as long as you can provide evidence of independent investigation and prosecution of the guilty soldiers to prove that the IDF does not believe it is ok to kill civilians, i'll give you the debate. (this should be really easy, after all the most im asking you to do is produce two links, one giving evidence of investigation, the other giving evidence of prosecution)

Think what enwiabeard is trying to say is that you can't write a full investigation report and co. in less than a month - this process takes a long time.

[enwiabe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_death_rate

Wow, I am honestly amazed that the gaza strip has the 9th lowest death rate in the world. That is so counter-intuitive it's absurd. I wonder if mr. politiks will begin to care that Sierra Leone has a mortality rate of 28.1/1000.

[JellyDonut]

"Note that the crude death rate as defined above and applied to a whole population can give a misleading impression. The crude death rate depends on the age (and gender) specific mortality rates and the age (and gender) distribution of the population. The number of deaths per 1000 people can be higher for developed nations than in less-developed countries, despite life expectancy being higher in developed countries due to standards of health being better. This happens because developed countries typically have a completely different population age distribution, with a much higher proportion of older people, due to both lower recent birth rates and lower mortality rates. A more complete picture of mortality is given by a life table which shows the mortality rate separately for each age."

Though I expect in Sierra Leone, everyone is dying

[enwiabe]

"Note that the crude death rate as defined above and applied to a whole population can give a misleading impression. The crude death rate depends on the age (and gender) specific mortality rates and the age (and gender) distribution of the population. The number of deaths per 1000 people can be higher for developed nations than in less-developed countries, despite life expectancy being higher in developed countries due to standards of health being better. This happens because developed countries typically have a completely different population age distribution, with a much higher proportion of older people, due to both lower recent birth rates and lower mortality rates. A more complete picture of mortality is given by a life table which shows the mortality rate separately for each age."

Though I expect in Sierra Leone, everyone is dying

Ahh that would explain it. I thought it was a bit ridiculous.

[curry_bro]

so much anger and frustration encased in a structurally elaborate cocoon of facts and arguments... such is the fate of the future of humanity.  savagery disguised as civility.

*interpret this as you may. i dont feel that elaboration is necessary

[slothpomba]

so much anger and frustration encased in a structurally elaborate cocoon of facts and arguments... such is the fate of the future of humanity.  savagery disguised as civility.

*interpret this as you may. i dont feel that elaboration is necessary

[dcc]

so much anger and frustration encased in a structurally elaborate cocoon of facts and arguments... such is the fate of the future of humanity.  savagery disguised as civility.

*interpret this as you may. i dont feel that elaboration is necessary

you're a wanderer

(der = k)

[ninwa]

so much anger and frustration encased in a structurally elaborate cocoon of facts and arguments... such is the fate of the future of humanity.  savagery disguised as civility.

*interpret this as you may. i dont feel that elaboration is necessary

thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the thread

[Art Vandelay]

so much anger and frustration encased in a structurally elaborate cocoon of facts and arguments... such is the fate of the future of humanity.  savagery disguised as civility.

*interpret this as you may. i dont feel that elaboration is necessary

[thushan]

Guys, let's not beat up currybro so much, he didn't do anything that bad

[curry_bro]

everyone clear aggravation towards my two lines shows that this discussion is infact, only a heated argument sugarcoated by facts. thats all i wanted to say earlier. sorry if i offended/irritated you. this will be my last post on this thread, if that is what you want.

[Planck's constant]

I am surprised by the reaction to curry_bro's post.
I'm with you, bro

[Biceps]

Curry_bro is absolutely right.
What he said didn't contribute to the discussion but it is a true observation.