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Author Topic: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread  (Read 448755 times)  Share 

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xenial

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1635 on: November 03, 2013, 12:34:28 pm »
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VCAA 2008 Exam 1 was on the relatively easy side. If you want something difficult, VCAA 2009 Exam 1 and VCAA 2011 Exam 1 would do it, as well as VCAA 2008 Exam 2 and VCAA 2012 Exam 2.

Thanks for that! Yeah I just did 2008 exam 2. There was multi choice that really tripped me up. The question about why the yield of methanol was different got me bad too haha.

I have question about that actually - the examiner's report says that the combustion of methanol is:

2CH3OH(l or g) + 3O2(g) → 2CO2(g) + 4H2O(g)

Why haven't they put (l or g) for water? It seems they only do it for some reactions - how do you know whether water will be in a gaseous or liquid state when it is the product of a combustion reaction?

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1636 on: November 03, 2013, 02:09:25 pm »
+1
Hey, I would appreciate some help for this question. I'm in the tentative belief the solution is incorrect, but am not sure. I also have a feeling my method is probably flawed :P (full question attached - important information paraphrased here)

Info:
- A 4 minute shower requires 10 032 kJ
- Propane: 2217 kJ/mol
- Butane: 2874 kJ/mol

Lpg contains 60% by mass of Propane and 40% by mass of Butane. Calculate the mass required to heat the water for a 4 minute shower:

My working:

Total heat of 1g of LPG = 0.6(2217/44) + 0.4(2874/58) = 50.05 kJ/g
Required is 10 032 kJ, therefore, 10 032/50.05 = 200.43 g of LPG

Suggested Answer
57 g

Thanks in advance
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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1637 on: November 03, 2013, 03:51:57 pm »
+1
Hey, I would appreciate some help for this question. I'm in the tentative belief the solution is incorrect, but am not sure. I also have a feeling my method is probably flawed :P (full question attached - important information paraphrased here)

Info:
- A 4 minute shower requires 10 032 kJ
- Propane: 2217 kJ/mol
- Butane: 2874 kJ/mol

Lpg contains 60% by mass of Propane and 40% by mass of Butane. Calculate the mass required to heat the water for a 4 minute shower:

My working:

Total heat of 1g of LPG = 0.6(2217/44) + 0.4(2874/58) = 50.05 kJ/g
Required is 10 032 kJ, therefore, 10 032/50.05 = 200.43 g of LPG

Suggested Answer
57 g

Thanks in advance
OMG OMG.  ;D Don't worry! I've got a fair few 100%s in chem trials lately, did that paper and got 200g too!! I don't know whether we're right or they're wrong. Calling on a chem god *hint hint* to clarify this. I was so suspicious of the answers! And I was like hell yeah 200g is an awesome looking answer..
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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1638 on: November 03, 2013, 03:59:53 pm »
+2
Yeah, I got the same. Can't be 57 g. If it were pure butane, for instance, 57 g of butane is a little under 1 mol. That'd release under 2874 kJ of energy (as stated in the qn). But you need >10,000 kJ. Not happening.
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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1639 on: November 03, 2013, 04:45:07 pm »
+1
Thanks guys, I'm glad to hear it :)
I am a mathhole

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1640 on: November 04, 2013, 12:18:58 am »
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Can we just ignore nitrates and sulfates dissolved in an electrolyte when we're deducing cell reactions?

How does the bond strength of the reactants or products relate to whether a reaction is endo- or exothermic? I've had a few questions ask about the strength of the bond in hydrogen and oxygen (undergoing combustion) compared to the strength of the O-H bonds in the water formed... how're we supposed to know which molecule contains the stronger bonds?

Why is electrolysing an aqueous NaCl solution more desirable than just electrolysing pure water? I get that we need charged particles to conduct electricity, but why? Just an expression thing as well - do we say the we electrolyse whatever the electrolyte is (eg. the NaCl solution was electrolysed) or whatever is specifically reacting (eg. magnesium was electrolysed)

When is it possible to determine K without a volume? I know in one VCAA exam there was a question where you could figure out K from the number of moles, but in another exam (Insight, I think), the answer was that K could not be determined without a volume

Is cell voltage affected by the electrolyte concentration (would it increase if we increased the concentration)?

Thanks :)
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Edward21

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1641 on: November 04, 2013, 12:49:59 am »
+1
Can we just ignore nitrates and sulfates dissolved in an electrolyte when we're deducing cell reactions?

How does the bond strength of the reactants or products relate to whether a reaction is endo- or exothermic? I've had a few questions ask about the strength of the bond in hydrogen and oxygen (undergoing combustion) compared to the strength of the O-H bonds in the water formed... how're we supposed to know which molecule contains the stronger bonds?

Why is electrolysing an aqueous NaCl solution more desirable than just electrolysing pure water? I get that we need charged particles to conduct electricity, but why? Just an expression thing as well - do we say the we electrolyse whatever the electrolyte is (eg. the NaCl solution was electrolysed) or whatever is specifically reacting (eg. magnesium was electrolysed)

When is it possible to determine K without a volume? I know in one VCAA exam there was a question where you could figure out K from the number of moles, but in another exam (Insight, I think), the answer was that K could not be determined without a volume

Is cell voltage affected by the electrolyte concentration (would it increase if we increased the concentration)?

Thanks :)
1) Generally you can, however they like to ask oh sulfate ion is an oxidant, how come it isn't reduced. Well you need acidic conditions to start, and to be reduced that would occur at the cathode in electrolysis, the cathode is negative so the sulfate ion wouldn't be electrostatically attracted to the electrode!!

2) Think of combustion like a massive explosion, you come from something fabulous like glucose down to basics like CO2 and H2O. In something big like glucose, it is LESS stable thus WEAKER intramolecular bonds, after combustion (or any other exothermic process) the enthalpy of the products is less than that of the reactions, where the products are MORE stable, with STRONGER bonds. Think complex is bad, and simple is good. Complex massive molecules are less stable ie. glucose for example, but CO2 and H2O are much more stable, with stronger bonds. For an endothermic reaction, energy is absorbed to make a less stable product of higher enthalpy, with weaker bonds as it is the reverse of an exothermic process.

3) In order to complete the circuit current needs to be carried by the soluble, mobile ions in the solution. The more complete the circuit is, or less problems required to obtain this flow with heaps of Na+ and Cl- (sorry I don't to physics, but..!) allows it all to happen much more efficiently as an electrolytic process. I'm not sure about the expression thing, hmm.

4) If something happens in VCAA that wasn't in a trial. Go with VCAA, you have to play by their rules ultimately. Do you remember which VCAA paper? I still have the 2011 and 2012s to go.

5) I think so, but that's a random guess that if there's more stuff there you get a higher voltage. Better get a physics nerd on this one! :)
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brightsky

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1642 on: November 04, 2013, 10:37:04 am »
+2
Edward21 has basically covered everything, but just a few things to note:

3) Edward21 has basically said it, but note that, in general, the more ions there are in solution the more efficient the electrolysis is. so we want as many ions in solution as possible. the K value for the self-ionisation of water is, as you know, very low, whereas the Ksp value for the dissolution of solid NaCl is very high. so electrolysis of aqueous NaCl is much more efficient than electrolysis of water. but I don't do physics, so I'm not entirely sure what efficiency means in this context (NLIU!!), but the response above should suffice. also, normally we say electrolysis of electrolyte. I've yet to see a question which talks about the electrolysis of magnesium. it's usually "student X decided to electrolyse NaCl solution".

4) it's possible to determine the Kc value from the equilibrium amounts only for reactions which have the same number of reactants as products (I think the term equimolar is used). the reason for this should be obvious. consider X + Y <---> A + B. the equilibrium constant is Kc = [A][  B]/[X][Y]. if we replace [species] with n(species)/V(species), provided that the volume remains constant, all the V(species) cancel out, leaving you with Kc = n(A)n(B)/n(X)n(Y). I vaguely recall the question to which you refer...and i'm pretty sure the reaction in the question was equimolar.

5) of course the electrolyte concentration affects the cell voltage but whether the effect is a voltage increase or decrease cannot really be determined, unless there is some trend of which I am unaware. as you know, the reduction potential of redox pairs changes as the concentration of the ions diverge from standard conditions. since the reduction potentials change, and since Eocell = Eooxidant - Eoreductant, it follows that the value of Eocell changes.
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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1643 on: November 04, 2013, 11:16:22 am »
+1
Can we just ignore nitrates and sulfates dissolved in an electrolyte when we're deducing cell reactions?

How does the bond strength of the reactants or products relate to whether a reaction is endo- or exothermic? I've had a few questions ask about the strength of the bond in hydrogen and oxygen (undergoing combustion) compared to the strength of the O-H bonds in the water formed... how're we supposed to know which molecule contains the stronger bonds?

Why is electrolysing an aqueous NaCl solution more desirable than just electrolysing pure water? I get that we need charged particles to conduct electricity, but why? Just an expression thing as well - do we say the we electrolyse whatever the electrolyte is (eg. the NaCl solution was electrolysed) or whatever is specifically reacting (eg. magnesium was electrolysed)

When is it possible to determine K without a volume? I know in one VCAA exam there was a question where you could figure out K from the number of moles, but in another exam (Insight, I think), the answer was that K could not be determined without a volume

Is cell voltage affected by the electrolyte concentration (would it increase if we increased the concentration)?

Thanks :)


1) Generally you can, however they like to ask oh sulfate ion is an oxidant, how come it isn't reduced. Well you need acidic conditions to start, and to be reduced that would occur at the cathode in electrolysis, the cathode is negative so the sulfate ion wouldn't be electrostatically attracted to the electrode!!

2) Think of combustion like a massive explosion, you come from something fabulous like glucose down to basics like CO2 and H2O. In something big like glucose, it is LESS stable thus WEAKER intramolecular bonds, after combustion (or any other exothermic process) the enthalpy of the products is less than that of the reactions, where the products are MORE stable, with STRONGER bonds. Think complex is bad, and simple is good. Complex massive molecules are less stable ie. glucose for example, but CO2 and H2O are much more stable, with stronger bonds. For an endothermic reaction, energy is absorbed to make a less stable product of higher enthalpy, with weaker bonds as it is the reverse of an exothermic process.

3) In order to complete the circuit current needs to be carried by the soluble, mobile ions in the solution. The more complete the circuit is, or less problems required to obtain this flow with heaps of Na+ and Cl- (sorry I don't to physics, but..!) allows it all to happen much more efficiently as an electrolytic process. I'm not sure about the expression thing, hmm.

4) If something happens in VCAA that wasn't in a trial. Go with VCAA, you have to play by their rules ultimately. Do you remember which VCAA paper? I still have the 2011 and 2012s to go.

5) I think so, but that's a random guess that if there's more stuff there you get a higher voltage. Better get a physics nerd on this one! :)

1. I'm going to be nitpicky and say that sulfate can be oxidised in the reaction 2SO4 2- => S2O8 2- + 2e-
but you don't need to know that.
Also, please do NOT say that the electrodes have charges. THEY DO NOT! For starters, you could have a "positive" cathode in a galvanic cell. Besides, electrodes are electrically neutral. They have to be.

2. Complex is bad? Generally, yes, but not just due to bond strength reasons. Larger numbers of particles are associated with more disorder and entropy, which is thermodynamically favoured (just bear this in mind).
As for bond strengths, in the combustion of hydrogen, the H2 bond is actually very strong. http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/OrgPage/bndenrgy.htm
H-H bond is almost as strong as the O-H bond due to the small size of the hydrogen atom. The oxygen molecule also has a strong bond; O=O IS a double bond. I suppose it's partly due to the stabilising effect of hydrogen bonding in water and of its polarity, coupled with the fact that oxygen atoms generally prefer to be in the oxidation state -2 due to their electronegativity.
But you can see why you need a spark to ignite hydrogen gas.

With combustion of organic compounds, think about the fact that C-C is also a relatively weaker bond.

3. Having an electrolyte increases the conductivity of the water, which allows charge to actually flow. Pure water's conductivity is tiny because it doesn't really have mobile charges in it, whereas if you have a dissolved salt, like sodium chloride, the charges present can stabilise any charge flow. If your charge can't move freely, your reaction is going to be slow.

Edward21 has basically covered everything, but just a few things to note:

3) Edward21 has basically said it, but note that, in general, the more ions there are in solution the more efficient the electrolysis is. so we want as many ions in solution as possible. the K value for the self-ionisation of water is, as you know, very low, whereas the Ksp value for the dissolution of solid NaCl is very high. so electrolysis of aqueous NaCl is much more efficient than electrolysis of water. but I don't do physics, so I'm not entirely sure what efficiency means in this context (NLIU!!), but the response above should suffice. also, normally we say electrolysis of electrolyte. I've yet to see a question which talks about the electrolysis of magnesium. it's usually "student X decided to electrolyse NaCl solution".

Be wary; if you have too much NaCl you can run into the chloralkali process.


4. I did that paper yesterday; VCAA 2011 Unit 4. In that case, we did have an equimolar reaction; the volume didn't matter.

5. Uh oh. Electrolyte concentration on cell voltage.
Do you mean generic sodium chloride electrolyte; the electrolyte which doesn't take part in the reaction?
If you mean something like AgOH, then of course concentration affects cell potential; increase the concentration of AgOH and the cell potential will increase. Increasing the concentration of the reactants will increase the cell potential and vice versa
If you mean a potassium nitrate electrolyte when electrolysing lead sulfate, for instance...I'm not too sure myself, but according to http://www.lenntech.com/calculators/activity/activity-coefficient.htm, activity coefficients, which are a measure of how much a solution's properties deviate from ideal conditions, depend on the charge of the species involved, so I would presume if you were trying to reduce Sn 4+, this would be inhibited by a higher electrolyte concentration, even if the Sn 4+ concentration is constant.
Don't worry about this; first-year chemistry students don't worry about non-ideal solutions much either.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 12:09:52 pm by nliu1995 »
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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1644 on: November 04, 2013, 11:49:25 am »
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Yeah.. I give up on explaining
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xenial

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1645 on: November 04, 2013, 12:37:43 pm »
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Okay this is a total grey area for me so don't mock me if I say stupid things:

What's the relationship between E naught values and the molar enthalpy of the reaction? Is a positive E naught value associated with an exothermic reaction, and vice versa? And how is all this related to the equilibrium constant?

xenial

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1646 on: November 04, 2013, 12:39:18 pm »
+1
Yeah.. I give up on explaining

don't feel too undermined :P Your knowledge of chemistry is enough to full mark a VCAA exam, don't worry!

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1647 on: November 04, 2013, 12:44:51 pm »
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Okay this is a total grey area for me so don't mock me if I say stupid things:

What's the relationship between E naught values and the molar enthalpy of the reaction? Is a positive E naught value associated with an exothermic reaction, and vice versa? And how is all this related to the equilibrium constant?

generally yes. strictly speaking positive E nought just means that the reaction is spontaneous, which means dG < 0 not necessarily dH < 0. but I think that in the context of VCE, we can just assume that any spontaneous redox reaction will release energy. the electrochemical cell in which an endothermic redox reaction takes place will inevitably be a pretty stuffed up electrochemical cell.

and if you're wondering as to the reasoning behind this:

dG = -n(e-) *F * E, so clearly if E value is positive dG must be negative. you can also show from this that large E means large K.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 12:46:24 pm by brightsky »
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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1648 on: November 04, 2013, 12:47:42 pm »
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Okay this is a total grey area for me so don't mock me if I say stupid things:

What's the relationship between E naught values and the molar enthalpy of the reaction? Is a positive E naught value associated with an exothermic reaction, and vice versa? And how is all this related to the equilibrium constant?

No. Exothermicity isn't the only criterion for spontaneity.

The E nought values are related to the molar enthalpy of the reaction, yes, but also related to the molar entropy of the reaction:
Standard electrode potential of a cell =


You can have a positive enthalpy change, but still have a spontaneous redox reaction that takes place. Enthalpy is ONLY heat at constant pressure; if you have a constant volume process, for instance, the enthalpy isn't quite the same as the heat produced.
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xenial

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Re: Chemistry 3/4 2013 Thread
« Reply #1649 on: November 04, 2013, 01:00:27 pm »
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Thanks so much guys - but what exactly is molar entropy nliu?

Keep in mind that I taught myself chemistry out of a heinemann textbook... I is dumb.