Over-emphasis on mathematics?

[JellyDonut]

i can program a text box to say "helllo world" when i click a button, i sometimes learn french on duolingo and i have the grammatical skills of an infant. am i ready for this world?

[appianway]

Aren't you agreeing with me then, that these extra skills are niche and are not necessary for a large amount of the jobs that the majority of people will fill? I mean, I'm happy that you're set on your, ah, globalised, high flying job, but being realistic; they're not factors that are going to be relevant to most people.

I think they're essential preparation for people considering some of the more prestigious jobs. And I think many of them will become increasingly important in the majority of jobs. Perhaps there will be jobs which won't need them, but I wouldn't feel confident going into the workforce if I couldn't code and didn't think it was something I could pick up in my own time if needed.

[Guest]

i can program a text box to say "helllo world" when i click a button, i sometimes learn french on duolingo and i have the grammatical skills of an infant. am i ready for this world?

I wouldn't say so; but at least you've made a start 
You must understand, in some way or another, that these skills have some importance; thus your reason for learning them.
Remember, at the moment it is not essential, but preferable. In the future, I think it will be less of a preference but more of a required essence for most jobs.

Great, people making futuristic predictions without having any actual idea of what it's going to be like. Using current trends to predict the long-term future is silly. To use a mathematical analogy, I guess you could compare it to using the current rate of change of a function to predict a very different value. The further you go, the less accurate.

No, in fact we are not "making futuristic predictions without knowing what it's going to be like." Ask yourself: at the birth of technology, all those many years ago, did we assume that it was going to have as much pertinence as it does now? At the time, we under assumed it, but now the result is unlike what anyone would have expected. You're functionally doing the same (under-assuming) by saying these things aren't going to have some sort of increase in importance. It's fair enough to predict based on current trends if we aren't looking too far ahead in the future. That even adheres to what you mentioned: "The further you go, the less accurate". We aren't predicting what's going to happen in 50 years time or even 30 years time. This is no huge change either. We are simply talking about "preferences" in the job market, in perhaps within the next decade, for people who can code, are bilingual, proficient punctually and decent arithmetically.

[lynt.br]

Also remember that many of these 'high end' jobs mean you are working in teams with various level of support staff including IT staff. It obviously helps to have skills like being able to code or being able to speak another language, but most companies are structured in a way that assumes their staff won't have these skills (or perhaps not everyone is proficient in the same language the firm uses etc.).

I do agree that it is important to have an understanding and appreciation of the realities and limits of information technology.

As an aside, if anyone is interested in learning computer science, it is probably (an unsurpsingly) one of the most popular fields for MOOCs (Massive Online Open Courses). There are a lot of courses you can take for free from places like CourseEra and EdX and I've heard good things about some of the computer science courses.

[Russ]

Technological literacy is a completely different matter and will obviously be significant as most industries adapt to the new developments. But if you think that being able to write code and speak multiple languages is going to be a requirement for the majority of jobs in the majority of industries in the near future (or will be more important than generalised communication skills/analytical ability)...well...I have a bridge to sell you.

[Guest]

Technological literacy is a completely different matter and will obviously be significant as most industries adapt to the new developments. But if you think that being able to write code and speak multiple languages is going to be a requirement for the majority of jobs in the majority of industries in the near future (or will be more important than generalised communication skills/analytical ability)...well...I have a bridge to sell you.

Once again, I repeat: "more of a preference, not exactly a requirement"

[Russ]

In the future, I think it will be less of a preference but more of a required essence for most jobs.

Once again, I repeat: "more of a preference, not exactly a requirement"

Okay, which one is it.

[appianway]

If you don't have these skills, you're at a competitive disadvantage. There's a reason why you're supposed to list languages and programming languages on a resume for almost every entry-level white collar job. Why give yourself that disadvantage when a little bit of work now could fix it?

I list these skills because they're transferable. Of course, you need certain skill sets for different industries. But even considering the IT department, there are lots of little bits of code which come up in a lot of different jobs. You don't need to be at the level to be hired by IT. You don't need to write thousands of lines. But you'll likely need to work with some kind of code. Sure, you could teach yourself later, maybe. But it's going to be harder to find the time once you have more responsibilities in your life, and having such fundamental skills is very beneficial when it comes to looking for a job.

[Guest]

Okay, which one is it.

Those refer to different time frames.
At the moment it is only a preference. Thus, this point serves as evidence for my hypothesis. In the future, it will be more required, but definetely not a must.

[Professor Polonsky]

I wouldn't say so; but at least you've made a start 
You must understand, in some way or another, that these skills have some importance; thus your reason for learning them.
Remember, at the moment it is not essential, but preferable. In the future, I think it will be less of a preference but more of a required essence for most jobs.

No, in fact we are not "making futuristic predictions without knowing what it's going to be like." Ask yourself: at the birth of technology, all those many years ago, did we assume that it was going to have as much pertinence as it does now? At the time, we under assumed it, but now the result is unlike what anyone would have expected. You're functionally doing the same (under-assuming) by saying these things aren't going to have some sort of increase in importance. It's fair enough to predict based on current trends if we aren't looking too far ahead in the future. That even adheres to what you mentioned: "The further you go, the less accurate". We aren't predicting what's going to happen in 50 years time or even 30 years time. This is no huge change either. We are simply talking about "preferences" in the job market, in perhaps within the next decade, for people who can code, are bilingual, proficient punctually and decent arithmetically.

Oh boy, okay. You completely missed a troll, and then completely missed the point of my post. And then you expect me to take you seriously as an authority on what the job market demands.

Appianway, I happen to know a person (or three) who work in the industries you mentioned quite well. I appreciate that what you're saying has some truth to it in certain fields and for certain jobs, but I think the post you made initially is an overgeneralisation of the situation. Those skills can come in handy, but I think one is perfectly suited even without being bilingual or most things that you have listed.

(I have exams to prepare to, so any future responses are likely to be brief and sporadic.)

[Planck's constant]

^ Totally agree with coding, I'd say in some circumstances, having a good set of coding skills is more important than mathematical skills.

Agree with TT
Agree with Appianway.

I would add superior spreadsheet skills to superior numeracy and coding skills.

[Russ]

Those refer to different time frames.

One explicitly mentions "in the future" and one is in direct response to me commenting on the future.

If you don't have these skills, you're at a competitive disadvantage. There's a reason why you're supposed to list languages and programming languages on a resume for almost every entry-level white collar job. Why give yourself that disadvantage when a little bit of work now could fix it?

Yeah, they're desirable skills when comparing applicants because they show that you're more well rounded and have a broader skill set. But that's completely different to when you originally said that you should be able to code or be bilingual as a necessity for gaining employment in the future, which is what people have been disagreeing with.

[Guest]

One explicitly mentions "in the future" and one is in direct response to me commenting on the future.

Yeah I should have not directly replied to the latter, since we were both referring to different time frames. It was only meant to add on to the conversation.

I would add superior spreadsheet skills to superior numeracy and coding skills.

What exactly do you mean by superior spreadsheet skills?

Oh boy, okay. You completely missed a troll, and then completely missed the point of my post. And then you expect me to take you seriously as an authority on what the job market demands.

Ok. Firstly, I didn't spot any "troll"; my bad. I've probably missed the point of your post; if you happen to say so. But when did I ever tell you you take me as an authority on what the job market demands? All I'm asserting here is what I think will occur in the future. There are people here with a similar mindset, while there are also people with a rather different opinion. That's fine.
Mind you, we are all overgeneralizing in some way. Throughout this thread, none of us have presented much evidence, asides from some anecdotal sort, towards contributing in this debate. I'll admit that I haven't got any, nor am I willing to go looking for some. Neither do you, so I don't think it is fair to "troll" in this manner. All we can do is assert what we "think" will happen. Unless of course, you know exactly what lies ahead and can present it with some evidence here.

[tram]

What exactly do you mean by superior spreadsheet skills?

Excel Skills basically. Insanely important if you want to go into any job that involves data. Tbh, super handy for lots of everyday things if you know all the tricks that spreadsheet programs have built in. Every single small business would find these programs infinitely useful if they used it properly- You would be amazed what your standard Microsoft excel can do.

Wikipedia Link

PS: Try Code Academy if you want to learn some basic Coding. It really is useful, even if you don't buy that it's going to be useful in the future (which i happen to disagree with, but don't have much more to add to he discussion that's already been had), the generic logic skills are useful, in the same way that i think maths is good for training your brain to think/problem solve.

[tram]

Interesting article came up in the NY times on this topic that i though warranted reviving the thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/opinion/how-to-fall-in-love-with-math.html?_r=3&