James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE

[mod0001]

the difference between what is right, and what is easy

I read that in Dumbledore's voice. ~Now is the time that we must choose between what is right, and what is easy~

haha so did i man!

[i.am.amanda]

Sure, his point is fairly cynical, but I don't think it was "pretentious" per se.

I read it and immediately thought "you arrogant douchebag":

but I regret my lack of academic failure.

He makes a really good point; if only his elephantine ego didn't shine through with it.

Lol!   Well said.

Edit: I meant that  Ninwa's post was well said...I don't actually know anything about this James Lu person

[kyzoo]

Mmm James Lu doesn't really stand out as arrogant in RL.

[Mao]

I think his high score has made him oblivious to a very important point, and many of our own also fell into the same hole: for the vast majority of the state, the difference between a 99.00 and a 99.95 is not that big - they are equally impossible. Many people find completing the syllabus to be an achievement, these people's focus is not on past papers, common mistakes and scaling, they are interested in learning the course and retaining as much as possible.

As far as I know, the only time when a difference between 99.95 and 99.85 matters is UoM Scholarships. Can you really blame the entire ENTER/ATAR system? I say it's how UoM select their awardees.

Maybe if James Lu studied at an average Joe school, then he might have some appreciation for the ENTER system.

[Nic K]

Although by no means do I agree with the way that that he addressed the issue of VCE but he certainly does raise a good point about the fact that the VCE system is indeed flawed and there is a need to change this system.

I personally think that the system needs a dramatic change (and hopefully when I become a teacher I can eventually push for changes to make Australia have a world class education system that we are proud of). For a start, is it really fair to give a majority (in most cases) of marks for how a student performs on one day? Better yet, is it really fair for students to be marked purely on essays and tests (again, in most cases)? I wasn't aware that education was based on disadvantaging certain students.

The fact that students receive an ENTER or study score is not the issue here; it is how how we determine what those study scores and ENTER's are and how much each task counts to these things. This is what the basis of education reform should be.

There is also the issue of what is taught in VCE, how much say a teacher should have in the curriculum and the education restrictions when teaching things that are not necessarily in the course but I won't go into those things this evening.

Feel free to agree, disagree or argue with me. I don't believe that my opinion is the only, nor necessarily the right one and I like to get a sense of what other people think.

[xXNovaxX]

But teachers have a LARGE say in the curriculum, in fact my teacher tells me the VCAA send emails every year asking teachers to be on the VCAA Board, and to mark exams etc....so I don't think this topic is an issue per se. Teachers are also the one that make the curriculum. Also, teachers are part of Associaitions e.g. the English teachers= VATE, and humanities teachers= SEV...these are like "unions", and push for change in the curriculum

Um, nah I am happy with exam=50%
SACS=50%

And besides, I know u did put a disclaimer in brackets, but art subjects etc have exams worth 34%, tehrefore ur school work is more important, which is only logical.

But yeah =D

[Nic K]

I know some people may be happy with exams being 50% and SAC's 50% but realistically it is something that a lot of students struggle with as they may not be strong with exams. I just don't think it's fair that we have a system that realistically disadvantages a fair proportion of students.

I didn't realise teacher's got the opportunity to be that involved in the designing of the curriculum. I'm still concerned about the restrictions on what can and cannot be taught though.

And yes, I put the disclaimer to note these some subjects have exams worth less.

Thanks for your response

[lynt.br]

Although by no means do I agree with the way that that he addressed the issue of VCE but he certainly does raise a good point about the fact that the VCE system is indeed flawed and there is a need to change this system.

I personally think that the system needs a dramatic change (and hopefully when I become a teacher I can eventually push for changes to make Australia have a world class education system that we are proud of). For a start, is it really fair to give a majority (in most cases) of marks for how a student performs on one day? Better yet, is it really fair for students to be marked purely on essays and tests (again, in most cases)? I wasn't aware that education was based on disadvantaging certain students.

The fact that students receive an ENTER or study score is not the issue here; it is how how we determine what those study scores and ENTER's are and how much each task counts to these things. This is what the basis of education reform should be.

There is also the issue of what is taught in VCE, how much say a teacher should have in the curriculum and the education restrictions when teaching things that are not necessarily in the course but I won't go into those things this evening.

Feel free to agree, disagree or argue with me. I don't believe that my opinion is the only, nor necessarily the right one and I like to get a sense of what other people think.

I agree that one exam having such a big influence on certain subjects is a massive flaw in the current system. It does not reward consistent school performance and can in fact ruin an entire year's worth of dedicated study in a single day. I also think that the current SAC system is huuuugely flawed. I've often suggested that instead of SACs, we have a number of internal examinations throughout the year that cover specific AOS. These internal examinations would be the same throughout Victoria, held under exam conditions and marked externally. The weightings of these exams would also be quite significant compared to SACs while the end of year exam is dropped. For instance, you could have 5 internal exams each worth 15% of your final SS and 1 final exam worth 25%. This would reward consistent performance throughout the year and also ensure if a student has a bad day on the final exam, it doesn't devastate their SS. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen because it would probably cost a bomb to implement.

SACs at the moment just aren't fair. In my school, some classes get different SACs while others do them under completely different conditions (Getting an additional period to work on a SAC compared to other classes etc.). I've seen times where students are working on SACs without any teacher supervision in an area where they could easily ask other students for help. I think I once inadvertently helped someone on their SAC because they were doing it at recess in the common room. This sort of lax attitude really shouldn't exist on something that actually affects your ENTER.

[xXNovaxX]

^ Yeah I know what you mean! I like that idea of 5 "internal exams"

I also find it weird how for English SACS.....we got given our context prompt 3-5 days before the SAC, and had two 70 minute periods to work on it.

Some classes got 1 day given only....

Other SCHOOLS, didnt get the question beforehand, and only had one period...

How is this fair?

[kyzoo]

I think exams should be a test of the accumulation of your skills and knowledge over the entire course, so I don't really agree with this concept of so many exams.

[EvangelionZeta]

Some responses from the man himself (apparently he's been reading this thread; I have nothing to do with this, other than acting as a messenger):

jqlu says (10:46 PM):
 Ok, first of all
 i wrote that letter, but it was severely truncated by the editor
 it lambasted the system on all levels
jqlu says (10:47 PM):
 for top end students, middle students, and weaker students
 and also the vocational vortex was a reference to tertiary education
 which i addressed
 but was deleted
jqlu says (10:48 PM):
 in response to ninwa: i think if u ask the teachers at MGS they would've predicted 50s from me in all those subjects
 and when u consider scaling in latin
 i don't think my subject selection
 can be attacked like that
 responding to Mao
 my attack was at all levels
 not only at the top levels
 scaling was initially a minor focus
 with the major focus being teh regimentation of the syllabus materials
 um
jqlu says (10:49 PM):
 as for pompous writing
 blame the editor
 a lot of it is not the same
jqlu says (10:50 PM):
 to xXNovaxX (http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6692)
 his view is absolutely correct
 it is usually those exploiting the system that have most to gain
 american universities enrol far better student bodies
 aptitude tests play a small role only
 in US admissions
jqlu says (10:51 PM):
 pernicious was not my word
 it was originally a bit harsher
jqlu says (10:51 PM):
 the dumbledore line was intentional
 i like the balance of his line
jqlu says (10:53 PM):
 that's enough for the moment
 i'll make a new account tmr
 and respond
 if they are still discussing it
 also i don't have a clue how i was called henry lol

Screenname changed to protect the innocent (?).

EDIT: Certain parts have been changed because James feel they will attract more attention than they deserve.

[ninwa]

• It's impossible to take ALL the high-scaling subjects there are. Not studying Latin doesn't mean he's not a hypocrite, considering he took specialist, methods etc.

Sorry about the rant, but arrogance is one of the things I most detest

edited at James Lu's request

[ninwa]

edit: changed it to James Lu

[xXNovaxX]

Im confused =.=*

I have NEVER seen James Lu on this site, why is he so big all of a sudden ><

Why is there a debate? is it because he doesnt like the system?

Congratz on the score btw

[QuantumJG]

Check out his letter to The Age:

"IT MIGHT seem a strange sentiment coming from a recent high school graduate, but I regret my lack of academic failure. Our education system churns out students who are afraid to fail, afraid to go beyond syllabus requirements, and perhaps even afraid to genuinely learn.

It is a disgusting enterprise. And the result? Entry via meaningless scores into a vocational vortex with only one destination: mediocrity.

This system does not teach students the difference between what is right, and what is easy - students simply take the path that secures more marks, unquestionably exemplified by the stereotypes that exist in subject selection.

The sense of wonder and discovery that should accompany the academic experience is lost amid all the interest in scaling and the ENTER. It is simply part of a pernicious culture that considers high scholarship for its own sake quaint.

James Lu, South Melbourne"

I read this article, I agree the VCE system is flawed, but some other stuff says "look at me". The part I have a problem with is:

Entry via meaningless scores into a vocational vortex with only one destination: mediocrity

Ok here seems to have an attack on the students and it's just downright bit&$y. Not to mention this is totally not true! People in uni can decide to tailor their course to a vocation that I say is the Al Pacino's (in scarface) view on life (I.e. First you get the money, then the power, then the women) or students can do a course that allows you to really learn and excel and trust me, you don't enter mediocrity.

In years 9 - 10, I really started enjoying physics and maths and spent ages studying nuclear physics and astronomy. In year 10 our school offered a subject called "space science". I loved it, it involved you going beyond the class and researching some amazing things about our universe and we had to make up a power point presentation and I spent ages off in my own world studying topics to present.

By VCE I was very interested in my subjects because I was excited in learning new concepts, by semester 2 I was conditioned to look at subjects as ways to score points, aim to beat everyone, etc. By year 12 I did everything to rack up scores. My first year of uni was to get me out of this frame of mind and be where I was in year 9 & 10. So you guys will find that uni is VERY different.

Then again I can understand what he is saying. Most of his peers wanted to do med, commerce or engineering because you get the respect, money, etc. One of my mates at school said he wanted to enter a career with a starting salary of 100k, his sister studies med, etc. He got the 98 he needed for optom and is doing that. Commerce students I sat with have such a skewed view of success, that for me to mention my major I get a weird look. I think "will these people live the rest of their lives with the same view they had in year 12?".

I agree the system is an ugly system. It makes students feel inadequate. The thing is that any new system will be the same. This guy is writing the wrong letter! For him to tell thousands of students 'your scores are meaningless' is shocking. All I know is that I am getting the age tomorrow to check the responses.