Maths Comps vs. VCE Maths

[brightsky]

Can one find a general indicator of their Maths Methods/Spesh results based on their performance in maths competitions? Is there any correlation between the two?


Are there any personal experiences out there?

[TrueTears]

From experience I can personally say VCE maths is hardly related to competition maths, both are totally different fields.

Competition maths has much more funner stuff than VCE though: Combinatorics, Algebra, Number theory, Geometry.

[kenhung123]

I think high maths comp scorers usually high VCE maths scorers but high VCE scorers aren't always high maths comp scorers.

[the.watchman]

I guess comp maths requires smarter and more elegant solutions and quick thinking.
VCE is a bit more of a blunder through memorised material...

[TrueTears]

I guess comp maths requires smarter and more elegant solutions and quick thinking.
VCE is a bit more of a blunder through memorised material...

Competition maths needs more wishful thinking and wider knowledge of fundamental ideas which VCE maths lacks.

And IMO has no calculus  :2funny:

[/0]

Can one find a general indicator of their Maths Methods/Spesh results based on their performance in maths competitions? Is there any correlation between the two?

probably yes, but correlation does not imply causation

[GerrySly]

Just a few cases of people who went to the IMO and did VCE.

Elveyprice, Andrew (2009 Gold Medalist, 37/42, Rank 10th)
Mathematics - Specialist Mathematics: 43
Liang, Alfred (2009 Bronze Medalist, 17/42, Rank 220th)
Mathematics - Mathematical Methods (CAS): 45
Chong, Aaron (2009 Silver Medalist, 30/42, Rank 54th)
Mathematics - Specialist Mathematics: 49
Ma, Dana (2009 Honorable Mention, 11/42, Rank 314th)
Mathematics - Mathematical Methods: 50 (Completed in 2008)

As you can see, the brightest of them all *only* got a 43 whilst the one who did the worst of them all (worst is better than most in comparison) got a 50.

[the.watchman]

For the uber-smart people, they can do really hard problems without trouble.
This probably boosts their confidence, so when they walk into the VCE exam, it is very easy for them to be complacent and careless.
That's what I've found from people I know.

[/0]

THE Andrew Elveyprice got 43  :O
haha so much for correlation

[QuantumJG]

One of my mates at uni I do physics with did training for maths comps in high school, scored really high and got 50's for methods and specialist (he also did UMEP or MUEP maths). I remember I tried one if those comps and had an epic fail.

[GerrySly]

THE Andrew Elveyprice got 43  :O
haha so much for correlation

That was my thoughts

[humph]

THE Andrew Elveyprice got 43  :O
haha so much for correlation

Nothing wrong with 43 in spesh

It's not too surprising though; the smartest guy I know doing maths at ANU (well he just graduated, but still...) "only" got an ENTER of 96 or something, but he always gunned the competitions.

[kyzoo]

There is not a strong correlation between results attained in Maths Competition and in VCE Maths. I'll take one competition I partook as an example - The University of Melbourne/BHP School Mathematics Competition. 7 worded problems, 3 hours, and you had to fully explain in writing how you conceived an answer. In the end I could only do 4 problems, and one of them took 3-4 pages of writing.

Careless mistakes are irrelevant in these circumstances, it's all about problem solving skill, speed, and the ability to communicate your conceptual understanding. Conversely all the questions on the VCE exams are easily solved, hence the ability to not make careless mistakes is paramount. In addition there is more than enough time to do every question, and you really only need to write down your answers and a bit of working out, which is nothing compared to the competition I referred to.

The two people who attained 50 in Spesh at my school this year never scored that highly on this competition, whereas Elvey-Price attained first place for it, and still got 43.

This is my theory - you don't need to be excellent at Maths to get a 50, you only need to be good enough. Once you have surpassed this level of "good enough," any additional mathematical prowess becomes irrelevant, and it becomes a matter of who can best avoid mistakes.

[TrueTears]

There is not a strong correlation between results attained in Maths Competition and in VCE Maths. I'll take one competition I took as an example - The University of Melbourne/BHP School Mathematics Competition. 7 worded problems, 3 hours, and you had to write explanations of how you came up with the answer. In the end I could only do 4 problems, and one of them took 3-4 pages of writing.

Careless mistakes are irrelevant in these circumstances, it's all about your problem solving skill, your speed, and your ability to communicate your conceptual understanding. Conversely all the questions on the VCE exam were easily solved, hence the ability to not make careless mistakes is paramount. In addition there is more than enough time to do every question, and you really only need to write down your answers and a bit of working out, which is nothing compared to the competition I referred to.

The two people who attained 50 in Spesh at my school this year never scored that highly on this competition, whereas Elvey-Price attained first place for it, and still got 43.

This is my theory - you don't need to be excellent at Maths to get a 50, you only need to be good enough. Once you have surpassed this level of "good enough," any additional mathematical prowess becomes irrelevant, and it becomes a matter of who can best avoid mistakes.

+1

In short, VCE Maths is about perfecting, Competition maths is about knowledge.

[/0]

There is not a strong correlation between results attained in Maths Competition and in VCE Maths. I'll take one competition I took as an example - The University of Melbourne/BHP School Mathematics Competition. 7 worded problems, 3 hours, and you had to write explanations of how you came up with the answer. In the end I could only do 4 problems, and one of them took 3-4 pages of writing.

Careless mistakes are irrelevant in these circumstances, it's all about your problem solving skill, your speed, and your ability to communicate your conceptual understanding. Conversely all the questions on the VCE exam were easily solved, hence the ability to not make careless mistakes is paramount. In addition there is more than enough time to do every question, and you really only need to write down your answers and a bit of working out, which is nothing compared to the competition I referred to.

The two people who attained 50 in Spesh at my school this year never scored that highly on this competition, whereas Elvey-Price attained first place for it, and still got 43.

This is my theory - you don't need to be excellent at Maths to get a 50, you only need to be good enough. Once you have surpassed this level of "good enough," any additional mathematical prowess becomes irrelevant, and it becomes a matter of who can best avoid mistakes.

+1

In short, VCE Maths is about perfecting, Competition maths is about knowledge.

+1