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Author Topic: Criticisms of the VCE  (Read 50083 times)  Share 

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jejak

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 01:14:49 am »
0
Quote
pro students will always find whatever learning system we have lacking in depth.
This is 100% true. I do think, though, that adding a deeper theoretical background to much of what we study at VCE could also be a boon for students who aren't so pro - that way, they have a more solid theoretical basis on which to build a sound understanding of the material. As TrueTears said, otherwise you just "don't learn the fundamentals," which can spell disaster for some people who need to understand the content globally, or "from the ground up." Of course this would require a lot more time and care on the part of students.

Quote
I found VCE Chemistry had more than enough depth for me to fail.
LOL, same here... :D


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appianway

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 10:34:08 am »
+1
The fact that you can be incredible in a subject and not have this reflected in the mark.

When you say this, you're essentially proposing that the subject examinations should have no bound on its difficulty, i.e. there is no structured syllabus and marking criteria. If not, there is no possible way to accurately differentiate between those who are actually "incredible in a subject", because there must be a threshold at some point. I think it's quite clear how this is implausible.

Secondly, you're making another assumption that the purpose of education, exams, and in this case, VCE, is to test your knowledge and skill alone. Why this is actually a delusion is because assessment is not about measuring how "smart" you are; rather, it probes your capacity to succeed, and this encompasses numerous factors. Universities do not just want the most intelligent students. Wonder why? This is because in life, just like VCE, the people that learn quickly (i.e. the people you define to be "smart") do not always win. Do you think entities such as universities and the like care how "incredible" people are if they cannot produce results?

I do understand your sentiments (it crossed my mind at some point as well), but ultimately this is just a diversion for top students in the event that they don't satisfy their expectations.

You've misinterpreted my statement. It's certainly possible to restrict the difficulty of subjects but incorporate a range of questions to engage all students. A science or maths exam with 3 or 4 more challenging questions wouldn't compromise the ability of the test to differentiate students; rather, it'd highlight students with a more profound understanding of the work. I think any individual who denies this evidently has no understanding of what frequently happens in the VCE - hardworking, intelligent (and hence "successful") students often lose out to less deserving pupils because of a small number of careless mistakes.

You also mentioned that universities want students who "succeed". I agree. However, I think that success has the potential to be measured more accurately (with examinations that test true understanding of the material) - the current assessments don't fairly reward intelligent students who've put in a lot of work. I know a plethora of individuals who've represented Australia in certain sciences and have put in a tremendous amount of work (both for their VCE/HSC and olympiad preparation) who haven't received stellar scores, due to a small number of trivial errors in their exams. I think it's an insult to them (and many others with similar experiences) to state that they don't "succeed". An examination at the end of the year with no challenging questions doesn't allow people like this to shine.

I think you've missed the whole point of my argument. I never said that the VCE examinations should be pitched at an incredibly difficult level. Rather, I believe that there should be a small number of questions on each paper which allow superior students (who happen to work hard and be intelligent) to come above the crowd.

After all, universities shouldn't be looking solely for students who make very few careless mistakes. Hard work and creative thinking should play a more vital role.

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 01:31:54 pm »
0
emphasis on VCE often discourages students from continuing other activities such as sport and music
VCE has ruined my life

Akirus

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2010, 02:14:40 pm »
0
The fact that you can be incredible in a subject and not have this reflected in the mark.

When you say this, you're essentially proposing that the subject examinations should have no bound on its difficulty, i.e. there is no structured syllabus and marking criteria. If not, there is no possible way to accurately differentiate between those who are actually "incredible in a subject", because there must be a threshold at some point. I think it's quite clear how this is implausible.

Secondly, you're making another assumption that the purpose of education, exams, and in this case, VCE, is to test your knowledge and skill alone. Why this is actually a delusion is because assessment is not about measuring how "smart" you are; rather, it probes your capacity to succeed, and this encompasses numerous factors. Universities do not just want the most intelligent students. Wonder why? This is because in life, just like VCE, the people that learn quickly (i.e. the people you define to be "smart") do not always win. Do you think entities such as universities and the like care how "incredible" people are if they cannot produce results?

I do understand your sentiments (it crossed my mind at some point as well), but ultimately this is just a diversion for top students in the event that they don't satisfy their expectations.

You've misinterpreted my statement. It's certainly possible to restrict the difficulty of subjects but incorporate a range of questions to engage all students. A science or maths exam with 3 or 4 more challenging questions wouldn't compromise the ability of the test to differentiate students; rather, it'd highlight students with a more profound understanding of the work. I think any individual who denies this evidently has no understanding of what frequently happens in the VCE - hardworking, intelligent (and hence "successful") students often lose out to less deserving pupils because of a small number of careless mistakes.

You also mentioned that universities want students who "succeed". I agree. However, I think that success has the potential to be measured more accurately (with examinations that test true understanding of the material) - the current assessments don't fairly reward intelligent students who've put in a lot of work. I know a plethora of individuals who've represented Australia in certain sciences and have put in a tremendous amount of work (both for their VCE/HSC and olympiad preparation) who haven't received stellar scores, due to a small number of trivial errors in their exams. I think it's an insult to them (and many others with similar experiences) to state that they don't "succeed". An examination at the end of the year with no challenging questions doesn't allow people like this to shine.

I think you've missed the whole point of my argument. I never said that the VCE examinations should be pitched at an incredibly difficult level. Rather, I believe that there should be a small number of questions on each paper which allow superior students (who happen to work hard and be intelligent) to come above the crowd.

After all, universities shouldn't be looking solely for students who make very few careless mistakes. Hard work and creative thinking should play a more vital role.

Your suggestion is still superficial in the light of the fact that the notion of these "challenging questions" is completely subjective. Do you realize you could apply this same reasoning until the questions are so difficult nobody in the state can answer them? Moreover, you are implying that students can ace VCE (45+) without having a solid grasp on the subject. No matter how you look at it, this is at best an excuse for top students that fail to get those coveted scores. tl;dr, it's all hokum.

Your second paragraph illustrates that you have not understood anything I typed. I digress: hard work and "intelligence" are related but not the same as success.

My lappy battery is dying, so I'll have to wrap it up here.

appianway

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2010, 02:41:02 pm »
0
The fact that you can be incredible in a subject and not have this reflected in the mark.

When you say this, you're essentially proposing that the subject examinations should have no bound on its difficulty, i.e. there is no structured syllabus and marking criteria. If not, there is no possible way to accurately differentiate between those who are actually "incredible in a subject", because there must be a threshold at some point. I think it's quite clear how this is implausible.

Secondly, you're making another assumption that the purpose of education, exams, and in this case, VCE, is to test your knowledge and skill alone. Why this is actually a delusion is because assessment is not about measuring how "smart" you are; rather, it probes your capacity to succeed, and this encompasses numerous factors. Universities do not just want the most intelligent students. Wonder why? This is because in life, just like VCE, the people that learn quickly (i.e. the people you define to be "smart") do not always win. Do you think entities such as universities and the like care how "incredible" people are if they cannot produce results?

I do understand your sentiments (it crossed my mind at some point as well), but ultimately this is just a diversion for top students in the event that they don't satisfy their expectations.

You've misinterpreted my statement. It's certainly possible to restrict the difficulty of subjects but incorporate a range of questions to engage all students. A science or maths exam with 3 or 4 more challenging questions wouldn't compromise the ability of the test to differentiate students; rather, it'd highlight students with a more profound understanding of the work. I think any individual who denies this evidently has no understanding of what frequently happens in the VCE - hardworking, intelligent (and hence "successful") students often lose out to less deserving pupils because of a small number of careless mistakes.

You also mentioned that universities want students who "succeed". I agree. However, I think that success has the potential to be measured more accurately (with examinations that test true understanding of the material) - the current assessments don't fairly reward intelligent students who've put in a lot of work. I know a plethora of individuals who've represented Australia in certain sciences and have put in a tremendous amount of work (both for their VCE/HSC and olympiad preparation) who haven't received stellar scores, due to a small number of trivial errors in their exams. I think it's an insult to them (and many others with similar experiences) to state that they don't "succeed". An examination at the end of the year with no challenging questions doesn't allow people like this to shine.

I think you've missed the whole point of my argument. I never said that the VCE examinations should be pitched at an incredibly difficult level. Rather, I believe that there should be a small number of questions on each paper which allow superior students (who happen to work hard and be intelligent) to come above the crowd.

After all, universities shouldn't be looking solely for students who make very few careless mistakes. Hard work and creative thinking should play a more vital role.

Your suggestion is still superficial in the light of the fact that the notion of these "challenging questions" is completely subjective. Do you realize you could apply this same reasoning until the questions are so difficult nobody in the state can answer them? Moreover, you are implying that students can ace VCE (45+) without having a solid grasp on the subject. No matter how you look at it, this is at best an excuse for top students that fail to get those coveted scores. tl;dr, it's all hokum.

Your second paragraph illustrates that you have not understood anything I typed. I digress: hard work and "intelligence" are related but not the same as success.

My lappy battery is dying, so I'll have to wrap it up here.

I defined being worthy of success as having a natural aptitude for the subject as well as putting in considerable work. If you so desperately beg to differ, how would you define it?

Your statement about the difficulty being able to escalate to ridiculous levels is inherently flawed. There's no motivation for exam writers to pitch papers at this level, and furthermore, I emphasised in my response that this would be unacceptable. To be clear, I never proposed anything of such immense difficulty that "no one" in the state can answer. Rather, I stipulated that "it's certainly possible to restrict the difficulty but incorporate a range of questions to engage all students". This suggestion isn't superficial. Although examiners can never know with absolute certainty whether questions will be perceived as "difficult", I'm sure that teachers with sufficient experience would be able to tell if the questions were appropriate, and if they could distinguish between top students. That argument can be refuted by debating that such practices exist presently, however, I believe that there's a consensus among many teachers for subjects such as physics and mathematical methods that the current question do not challenge most students, hence demonstrating that the aforementioned practice has not already been rendered null. Furthermore, the subjectivity of the difficulty wouldn't rest upon a single individual - a team of staff are involved in the composition of each examination paper. The appropriate level of difficulty isn't too difficult to determine - a statistical analysis of past examination questions (and a comparison to prospective problems for a certain year) could roughly gauge the appropriate level.

I'm not sure how on earth you could perceive my statements as saying that students in the top 2% lack a grasp of the subject. Instead, I suggested that within (and slightly outside) this range, students aren't differentiated based on their true understanding, but rather, trivial factors in the examination. I've used this example to death by now, but consider the Unit 3 Physics examination. A total of 4 marks could be dropped to stay within the top 11 or so percent; a score of 88/90 thus equated to roughly the top 3 or 4%. As the paper didn't test a profound understanding of the subject (most of the questions involved the regurgitation of formulae with little or no manipulation), perfect scores could be obtained without understanding the complexities of the course. However, a student who possessed such a keen comprehension of the material (and perhaps sat within the top 0.5 or so percent of their school cohort) could easily drop a few marks by making a substitution error, colouring the wrong multiple choice bubble accidentally, or not seeing a question (this happened to a friend of mine who had high 90s on our rather difficult SACs). Such a student wouldn't achieve a score indicative of their understanding of the subject, and likewise, a student with a grasp (albeit far less profound) of the material could attain 90/90. I never suggested once that students didn't understand the subject; rather, I stated that the order of marks wasn't representative of the true comprehension of the students.

If you honestly think that the difficulty of the VCE system presently suffices (and hence believe that a few questions which require higher orders of thinking don't deserve a place in our examinations), you obviously have little familiarity with the qualification itself. Let me say this: if there's an exam where 10% of the state scores 96% or above, it's not going to discriminate fairly between students.

appianway

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2010, 02:51:50 pm »
0
emphasis on VCE often discourages students from continuing other activities such as sport and music

And agreed. However, this is more of a social flaw rather than a problem with the system itself - individuals in certain circles place an unfair emphasis on the score obtained, and often use this as a judgement of character (despite the lack of relevance to personality whatsoever). This emphasis is often completely unneccesary - if someone's aiming for a course with a cut off of 98, a 99.5 has little importance, unless it's for personal satisfaction... although personal satisfaction can also come from success/involvement in sport and music.

brightsky

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2010, 03:16:40 pm »
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The fact that you can be incredible in a subject and not have this reflected in the mark.

When you say this, you're essentially proposing that the subject examinations should have no bound on its difficulty, i.e. there is no structured syllabus and marking criteria. If not, there is no possible way to accurately differentiate between those who are actually "incredible in a subject", because there must be a threshold at some point. I think it's quite clear how this is implausible.

Secondly, you're making another assumption that the purpose of education, exams, and in this case, VCE, is to test your knowledge and skill alone. Why this is actually a delusion is because assessment is not about measuring how "smart" you are; rather, it probes your capacity to succeed, and this encompasses numerous factors. Universities do not just want the most intelligent students. Wonder why? This is because in life, just like VCE, the people that learn quickly (i.e. the people you define to be "smart") do not always win. Do you think entities such as universities and the like care how "incredible" people are if they cannot produce results?

I do understand your sentiments (it crossed my mind at some point as well), but ultimately this is just a diversion for top students in the event that they don't satisfy their expectations.

You've misinterpreted my statement. It's certainly possible to restrict the difficulty of subjects but incorporate a range of questions to engage all students. A science or maths exam with 3 or 4 more challenging questions wouldn't compromise the ability of the test to differentiate students; rather, it'd highlight students with a more profound understanding of the work. I think any individual who denies this evidently has no understanding of what frequently happens in the VCE - hardworking, intelligent (and hence "successful") students often lose out to less deserving pupils because of a small number of careless mistakes.

You also mentioned that universities want students who "succeed". I agree. However, I think that success has the potential to be measured more accurately (with examinations that test true understanding of the material) - the current assessments don't fairly reward intelligent students who've put in a lot of work. I know a plethora of individuals who've represented Australia in certain sciences and have put in a tremendous amount of work (both for their VCE/HSC and olympiad preparation) who haven't received stellar scores, due to a small number of trivial errors in their exams. I think it's an insult to them (and many others with similar experiences) to state that they don't "succeed". An examination at the end of the year with no challenging questions doesn't allow people like this to shine.

I think you've missed the whole point of my argument. I never said that the VCE examinations should be pitched at an incredibly difficult level. Rather, I believe that there should be a small number of questions on each paper which allow superior students (who happen to work hard and be intelligent) to come above the crowd.

After all, universities shouldn't be looking solely for students who make very few careless mistakes. Hard work and creative thinking should play a more vital role.

Your suggestion is still superficial in the light of the fact that the notion of these "challenging questions" is completely subjective. Do you realize you could apply this same reasoning until the questions are so difficult nobody in the state can answer them? Moreover, you are implying that students can ace VCE (45+) without having a solid grasp on the subject. No matter how you look at it, this is at best an excuse for top students that fail to get those coveted scores. tl;dr, it's all hokum.

Your second paragraph illustrates that you have not understood anything I typed. I digress: hard work and "intelligence" are related but not the same as success.

My lappy battery is dying, so I'll have to wrap it up here.

I defined being worthy of success as having a natural aptitude for the subject as well as putting in considerable work. If you so desperately beg to differ, how would you define it?

Your statement about the difficulty being able to escalate to ridiculous levels is inherently flawed. There's no motivation for exam writers to pitch papers at this level, and furthermore, I emphasised in my response that this would be unacceptable. To be clear, I never proposed anything of such immense difficulty that "no one" in the state can answer. Rather, I stipulated that "it's certainly possible to restrict the difficulty but incorporate a range of questions to engage all students". This suggestion isn't superficial. Although examiners can never know with absolute certainty whether questions will be perceived as "difficult", I'm sure that teachers with sufficient experience would be able to tell if the questions were appropriate, and if they could distinguish between top students. That argument can be refuted by debating that such practices exist presently, however, I believe that there's a consensus among many teachers for subjects such as physics and mathematical methods that the current question do not challenge most students, hence demonstrating that the aforementioned practice has not already been rendered null. Furthermore, the subjectivity of the difficulty wouldn't rest upon a single individual - a team of staff are involved in the composition of each examination paper. The appropriate level of difficulty isn't too difficult to determine - a statistical analysis of past examination questions (and a comparison to prospective problems for a certain year) could roughly gauge the appropriate level.

I'm not sure how on earth you could perceive my statements as saying that students in the top 2% lack a grasp of the subject. Instead, I suggested that within (and slightly outside) this range, students aren't differentiated based on their true understanding, but rather, trivial factors in the examination. I've used this example to death by now, but consider the Unit 3 Physics examination. A total of 4 marks could be dropped to stay within the top 11 or so percent; a score of 88/90 thus equated to roughly the top 3 or 4%. As the paper didn't test a profound understanding of the subject (most of the questions involved the regurgitation of formulae with little or no manipulation), perfect scores could be obtained without understanding the complexities of the course. However, a student who possessed such a keen comprehension of the material (and perhaps sat within the top 0.5 or so percent of their school cohort) could easily drop a few marks by making a substitution error, colouring the wrong multiple choice bubble accidentally, or not seeing a question (this happened to a friend of mine who had high 90s on our rather difficult SACs). Such a student wouldn't achieve a score indicative of their understanding of the subject, and likewise, a student with a grasp (albeit far less profound) of the material could attain 90/90. I never suggested once that students didn't understand the subject; rather, I stated that the order of marks wasn't representative of the true comprehension of the students.

If you honestly think that the difficulty of the VCE system presently suffices (and hence believe that a few questions which require higher orders of thinking don't deserve a place in our examinations), you obviously have little familiarity with the qualification itself. Let me say this: if there's an exam where 10% of the state scores 96% or above, it's not going to discriminate fairly between students.

I've tried to converge both of your arguments and I think the disagreement elicits from the different viewpoints of the word "smart". I see where Akirus' sentiments are heading towards, and I can riposte here by saying that the issue of not having bright students shine is not just a problem that the VCE has, but a problem that most educational institutions have, including Universities. Yes, alas, there is a major difference in our society between being "smart" and being able to "succeed". What the concern is is that such educational institutions rely too heavily on examinations to determine one's worthiness and potential, which, in my opinion, can only measure one dimension of the individual. The entire magnitude of one's potential cannot be solely demonstrated on an exam. Common questions that arise are: how about if they "stuffed up" on the day? How about if they had a "memory blank"? How about if they run out of time? All these questions revolve around the student's examination technique, and not their true aptitude in the related subject.

Furthermore, I need to emphasise that appianway's comment that one can actually "ace" VCE by not actually having AS DEEP A conceptual understanding of the material as a student who scored a lower mark. As with most other written examinations, a lot of the material can be rote-learned and memorised, and hence such is sufficient to score exceptional marks on said exam. Yes, what I am saying is a generalisation, but it is a veritable possibility.

@ appianway. I don't think the issue is rooted from surface difficulty of the exam, but the actual content. I cannot see any way thus far to test "real" ability. The term "real" rather ambiguous, because every student is different. But I do see your sentiments.
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brightsky

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2010, 03:20:34 pm »
0
emphasis on VCE often discourages students from continuing other activities such as sport and music

And agreed. However, this is more of a social flaw rather than a problem with the system itself - individuals in certain circles place an unfair emphasis on the score obtained, and often use this as a judgement of character (despite the lack of relevance to personality whatsoever). This emphasis is often completely unneccesary - if someone's aiming for a course with a cut off of 98, a 99.5 has little importance, unless it's for personal satisfaction... although personal satisfaction can also come from success/involvement in sport and music.

This happens can happen in all exams, not just VCE. It depends on the individual, and their willingness to engage in these activities. You should see in China, students become so immersed into exams that they become psychologically derailed, and their WHOLE life becomes revolved around exams and doing well in them.
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NE2000

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2010, 04:03:22 pm »
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Hmm...I think the VCE physics example is not a good one. It is an exception to the general rule. However, I do think appianway has a fair point. But I also think that in terms of the overall ENTER score, it balances out somewhat, in that unless the student has a real problem with carelessness then they won't make such mistakes on all their subjects and still get their fair share of 48-50s.
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Akirus

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 04:27:37 pm »
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The fact that you can be incredible in a subject and not have this reflected in the mark.

I defined being worthy of success as having a natural aptitude for the subject as well as putting in considerable work. If you so desperately beg to differ, how would you define it?

Your statement about the difficulty being able to escalate to ridiculous levels is inherently flawed.


I stopped reading here, you clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.

To answer your question (although I denounce that I am even showing a hint of desperation; on what do you base this presumption?), there is no such thing as "worthy of success". Your insistence that students with natural aptitude for a subject "deserve" the best grades is a fallacy.

While I would like to make a detailed analysis of your post and pick out all the inconsistencies in your argument, it is, unfortunately, the eve of the beginning of school. I don't have time for further long-winded rebuttals. You may take this as you will.

brightsky

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2010, 04:36:26 pm »
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Quote
To answer your question (although I denounce that I am even showing a hint of desperation; on what do you base this presumption?), there is no such thing as "worthy of success". Your insistence that students with natural aptitude for a subject "deserve" the best grades is a fallacy.

Agreed. But I resent it. Life sucks?
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kyzoo

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2010, 04:42:03 pm »
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Those who are worthy of success will obtain success. By that line of reasoning, a natural aptitude and doing considerable work is insufficient; there's more to success than just that. I'm not going to provide the whole picture, but one significant factor you missed out was the correct method - the correct application of effort. Effort is merely "raw material," what matters is the product.

Christopher Langan, proclaimed as "the smartest man in America," has a natural aptitude and has done considerable work, as evidenced by his IQ of 195-210 and being mostly self-taught. He achieved a perfect SAT score, yet his theory of the universe, the "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe (CTMU)," has failed to achieve the acceptance and acclaim that Einstein's theory of relativity attained. Langan furthermore is a relatively unknown figure.

My point is that natural aptitude and considerable work is insufficient for success.
2009
~ Methods (Non-CAS) [48 --> 49.4]

2010
~ Spesh [50 --> 51.6]
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~ Chem [43 --> 46.5]
~ English [46 --> 46.2]
~ UMEP Maths [5.0]

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brightsky

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2010, 05:01:11 pm »
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Those who are worthy of success will obtain success. By that line of reasoning, a natural aptitude and doing considerable work is insufficient; there's more to success than just that. I'm not going to provide the whole picture, but one significant factor you missed out was the correct method - the correct application of effort. Effort is merely "raw material," what matters is the product.

Christopher Langan, proclaimed as "the smartest man in America," has a natural aptitude and has done considerable work, as evidenced by his IQ of 195-210 and being mostly self-taught. He achieved a perfect SAT score, yet his theory of the universe, the "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe (CTMU)," has failed to achieve the acceptance and acclaim that Einstein's theory of relativity attained. Langan furthermore is a relatively unknown figure.

My point is that natural aptitude and considerable work is insufficient for success.

I disagree and agree with you. The questions I pose are: Where do we draw the line between one that is "unworthy of success" and those that are "worthy"? There are some people that are seemingly "unworthy of success" by your definition that do in fact achieve "success". Is this fair?

And your example is a paragon to what is being discuss. Intelligence can be measured in many ways depending on how one defines intelligence. Yes, achieving perfect scores in the SAT or the VCE may define the individual as "intelligent", but how many people in China come out of their PhD studies and become useless individuals that cannot contribute anything to society other than their plethora of competition awards and Bachelor, Masters and Doctorate certificates? Following this chain of thought, another idea arises. How about if we define "intelligence" by one's potential contribution to society? However, at times, these two are very contradictory.

Take the trite old Einstein example. Einstein was seen as an inherently underperforming student at school. He was rebellious and was failing in terms of grades. And yet, decades later, he shall be named the smartest man on Earth.

So the ultimate question returns: how the hell do we measure intelligence? The VCE system, patently, does not measure it entirely successfully.
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kyzoo

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Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2010, 05:24:13 pm »
0
Answer: You can't, not if there are so many conflicting perspectives of "intelligence" as you say.
2009
~ Methods (Non-CAS) [48 --> 49.4]

2010
~ Spesh [50 --> 51.6]
~ Physics [50 --> 50]
~ Chem [43 --> 46.5]
~ English [46 --> 46.2]
~ UMEP Maths [5.0]

2010 ATAR: 99.90
Aggregate 206.8

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appianway

  • Guest
Re: Criticisms of the VCE
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 05:35:02 pm »
0
Akirus, I wasn't insisting at all that students with a natural aptitude for a subject automatically deserve success. Rather, I said that individuals with a profound conceptual understanding of a course - whether this be obtained by study or facility with learning - deserve to have this reflected in their marks. The VCE system doesn't do this.

My main point seems to have been missed - some of the subjects (in particular, physics and mathematical methods) do not accurately discriminate between students, especially at the upper end. It's inevitable that the students with the best understanding (which I believe strongly should be rewarded) aren't always going to be the top achievers, but I think the simplicity of some VCE assessments increases the prevalence of this occuring.