The pros and cons of VCE English

[rustic_metal]

english language requires strong natural english skills. if you dont get it, you dont get it, and probably wont.

[cara.mel]

english language requires strong natural english skills. if you dont get it, you dont get it, and probably wont.

I second that. If you can't do well in english, you won't do well in language.

It's been up and running at my school for a good few years now.
A lot of people chose EL 1/2 thinking it would be easy and left us after semester 1. Another lot of people did english unit 1, english language unit 1 (we did unit 2 first to allow people to try both) and most of them never wanted to touch the subject again either. And there are a lot of people who do it this year who would be better off in normal english.

And we have either 29 or 31 people doing language 3/4 this year (it's one of those, the other number is how many do chinese xD)

[Collin Li]

I'm not sure about that. I think they target different audiences. Language analysis seems much easier to me, simply because I do not like studying lengthy boring texts, but I don't mind analysing a series of short articles. They are interesting for a few hours, whereas you have to be interested in a crappy text for a term.

[cara.mel]

I'm not sure about that. I think they target different audiences. Language analysis seems much easier to me, simply because I do not like studying lengthy boring texts, but I don't mind analysing a series of short articles. They are interesting for a few hours, whereas you have to be interested in a crappy text for a term.

They do target different audiences yes, but you definitely still need to have skills comparable to english.

We don't analyse things like what the section in the English exam is like.
About 35 mins for 1-2 written texts from any source (not just articles, can be fiction, ads, random bits of information, emails), and 35 mins on a spoken text (chit-chats, interviews etc), and answering specific questions. Some of them are stupidly easy (what is the function of this text, what part of speech is blah, what sentence type is this) but the 4 and 6 markers you need to have a complete understanding of what is in front of you and understand what the question is asking, and not to just re-use generalised answers from previous experience

And then theres the essay. If you can't write one in english, you won't be any better here (in some aspects it's probably harder, because the book is effectively a limit on all there is to know/include, and your quotes cant exactly be 'unoriginal' or 'standard' quotes). You can use 'I' in them but, that is good fun xD

[Collin Li]

I have great writing skills, but I have no skill in VCE English. It is because 66% of the exam is text response.

I am sure I could do well in English Language. I would argue the same for other logically minded people, because the subject is a bit more technical.

[Ledward]

The problem with English is that too much of it hinges on the final exam. I remember finishing it just in time; a bit of a close call...

[enwiabe]

So Ledward, if you're a BCom/BIS student at unimelb...

Why is your e-mail [email protected]?

[brendan]

becos he is is a l33t h4x0r

[brendan]

Why should you care about being able to write well?

Hedge fund manager Mark Sellers tells Harvard business students the secrets to success as an investor. http://www.beearly.com/pdfFiles/Sellers24102004.pdf

"As an investor, you need to perform calculations and have a logical investment thesis. This is your left brain working. But you also need to be able to do things such as judging a management team from subtle cues they give off. You need to be able to step back and take a big picture view of certain situations rather than analyzing them to death. You need to have a sense of humor and humility and common sense. And most important, I believe you need to be a good writer. Look at Buffett; he's one of the best writers ever in the business world. It's not a coincidence that he's also one of the best investors of all time. If you can't write clearly, it is my opinion that you don't think very clearly."

[Khangfu]

Well maybe Mark Sellers just suck ass XD

[Galelleo]

i disagree droodles.


You dont need to express yourself to the extent that vce english covers in order to fucntion in university life, let alone society as a whole.

You might need language analysis etc to help from being brainwashed / influenced by eveyrthing around you, but when will you need to analyse filming techniques of an australian film etc...

I get Cs on english essays, but A+s on physics/psych AND specialist maths.

Am i a dumbass?

[brendan]

English filters out the people who are dumbasses, if u suck at english u will suck at uni then life

What a wild proposition. What evidence do you have that relates performance in VCE English with academic results at university and then earning capacity in employment/business?

[Collin Li]

English filters out the people who are dumbasses, if u suck at english u will suck at uni then life

Nuh uh. I got 36 in English, which affected my ENTER score quite a bit, but in subjects that require expression, like microeconomics, my assignment marks were above 95%. Your argument is also invalid for people who plan to study things like Engineering and Medicine, because they don't require a fluent and sophisticated knowledge of the English language, they only need to use concise and succinct language.

Text responses are a major flaw in VCE English, because the weighting on the importance of text responses largely affects your study score, and hence your aggregate and ENTER. The ability to respond to a text response question is irrelevant to English skills or overall ability.

[Odette]

English filters out the people who are dumbasses, if u suck at english u will suck at uni then life

Nuh uh. I got 36 in English, which affected my ENTER score quite a bit, but in subjects that require expression, like microeconomics, my assignment marks were above 95%. Your argument is also invalid for people who plan to study things like Engineering and Medicine, because they don't require a fluent and sophisticated knowledge of the English language, they only need to use concise and succinct language.

Text responses are a major flaw in VCE English, because the weighting on the importance of text responses largely affects your study score, and hence your aggregate and ENTER. The ability to respond to a text response question is irrelevant to English skills or overall ability.

I agree =]

[principe]

English filters out the people who are dumbasses, if u suck at english u will suck at uni then life

I completely disagree! A person's ability in English alone is not a measure of one's potential success in life. Also success in life may not mean becoming filthy rich for some people. Different people measure success in their own way. Some may find that they have succeeded in life once they are old, retired and have a well established family. Not everyone measures their success with wealth and quality of career.
Ultimately people who measure success with establishing a family can succeed in life without having to learn analytical skills.
Clearly in your perspective success means going to university, advancing your career and making plenty of money. So in your case English is necessary.