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November 10, 2025, 10:09:34 pm

Author Topic: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates  (Read 61690 times)  Share 

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suenoga

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #150 on: November 29, 2008, 04:52:12 pm »
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My point is that it is simple to see through your bullshit, you claim not to be anti-arts even though you continuously post articles that have an anti-arts prejudice/bias. You haven't stated that you are specifically Anti-Arts and therefore I can't quote you, but it's pretty simple to tell. I don't know you better then you know yourself, but honey, baby, I know a liar when I see one.  

brendan

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #151 on: November 29, 2008, 05:28:55 pm »
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post articles that have an anti-arts prejudice/bias.

How are any of these articles "anti-Arts"?
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,7719.msg96113.html#msg96113

enwiabe

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #152 on: November 29, 2008, 05:37:32 pm »
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Troll. :)

Electioneering

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #153 on: November 29, 2008, 06:08:29 pm »
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blah blah blah i'm not bashing arts blah blah blah

I AM JUST THE MESSENGER!! I AM JUST THE MESSENGER!! PLEASE SIR!!! I'M INNOCENT!!

no one would freely allow themselves to be appointed the messenger of news that does not support their opinions.
2008 - hi
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brendan

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #154 on: November 29, 2008, 06:10:38 pm »
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blah blah blah i'm not bashing arts blah blah blah

I AM JUST THE MESSENGER!! I AM JUST THE MESSENGER!! PLEASE SIR!!! I'M INNOCENT!!

no one would freely allow themselves to be appointed the messenger of news that does not support their opinions.

Well, if it makes you happy, I do believe the following to be true:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/11/15/1226319000858.html
Graduate Careers Australia executive director Cindy Tilbrook said while the pain might be eased by vacancies due to an ageing workforce and an continuing skills shortage in areas such as health and engineering, those with a "less defined" career path from humanities or generalist degrees were more likely to struggle to find work.
"They are the ones who feel it even in good times because their outcomes are not as good as those in skill-shortage areas," she said.


http://andrewnorton.info/2008/11/over-qualified-workers/
26.3% of graduates were working in jobs that the ABS occupational classifications system says require vocational or no post-secondary education rather than higher education. That’s only .2% lower than last year. Work I have done on data from the 2006 census suggests that it is the generalist degrees, and particularly arts (with the exception of those with degrees in ‘philosophy and religious studies’), that drag down the average. About 40% of other Arts graduates are in jobs that don’t require higher education.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Education/documents/2007/02/07/UUKfulltext.pdf
One of the first analyses to consider the economic benefits of higher education subjects found that men in possession of an undergraduate degree achieved an earnings premium of approximately 15% over individuals in  possession of A-levels.The corresponding estimate for women was 19%.
However, men in possession of mathematics degrees achieved a 25.7% earnings premium over those with A-levels as their highest qualification, while corresponding women achieved a 38.6% earnings premium. In contrast,the premium for men in possession of undergraduate degrees in the arts was 4% less relative to those individuals with A-levels,whilst women achieved a  17% premium. Irrespective of the subject of study,the financial benefit of completing a degree is much greater for women than for men, but this may be due to the relatively low earnings of non-graduate women.


http://www.cis.org.au/Policy/winter00/polwin00-9.htm
… a survey by ACNielsen found that employers thought their Arts graduates had below average literacy skills. …
Since the mid-1970s Arts graduates have in each decade been experiencing a more difficult transition from study to work, to the point where more than 30% are still looking for full-time work four months after graduating. While their labour market position improves substantially over time, they never come close to matching their peers in some other degrees. People with degrees in what the Australian Bureau of Statistics calls ‘society and culture’ have unemployment rates about 50% above those of graduates generally. Wages too remain well below average, probably partly because some graduates are working in jobs for which degrees are not required.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 10:59:14 pm by Brendan »

Electioneering

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #155 on: November 29, 2008, 06:15:14 pm »
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tl;dr

what makes you think the rest of the board even care what your beliefs are?

EDIT: OIC YOU EDITED YOUR POST.
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brendan

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #156 on: November 29, 2008, 06:18:28 pm »
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tl;dr

what makes you think the rest of the board even care what your beliefs are?

EDIT: OIC YOU EDITED YOUR POST.

Where did I say that I thought the rest of the board care about "my beliefs"? You seemed to care enough about this thread to post.

Electioneering

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #157 on: November 29, 2008, 06:22:56 pm »
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it was implied when you opened a thread. you started countless threads, hoping no one would read their content?

of course i care. i wouldn't refer to myself in third person.
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RD

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #158 on: November 29, 2008, 10:50:56 pm »
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And too bad NO ONE CARES seeing as this applies to people in the UK. Way to make a point dude.

Not only that, but the article is from 2007, meaning that he actually went to search for this article. You can just imagine him sitting there typing in "arts degrees poor earnings" and his face lighting up with glee when he found what he was looking for.

It's pathetically funny :)
lol that just sounded hilarious
but yeah.. I never really liked arts.. but thats just me and my disinterests..

brendan

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #159 on: November 29, 2008, 11:16:18 pm »
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http://www.smh.com.au/news/Heckler/Degrees-of-difficulty/2005/04/24/1114281450827.html
Degrees of difficulty
April 25, 2005
Kim Smee defends her fellow arts graduates from the class of arse.

Sitting somewhere between the battle of public versus private school and white collar versus blue is the most irritating class war of them all - science graduate versus arts or bachelor of arse graduates, as some like to say.

As a graduate of two arts degrees, I take offence at science students' claims that I do not have real degrees. Like you pharmacological, veterinarian, molecular biology types, my years on campus ground were ones of sweat and tears.

Every day, or so, I had to crawl out of bed and sober up with a splash of cool water as the crack of midday sun pierced through the bathroom window. I had to drive to university only to discover that every parking space had been greedily snatched up by a science student hours before.

When you could quietly sit in the cafeteria corner and leisurely read your physics texts, I was forced to sit with a loud post-modernist clan of intertextual canonists and brainstorm for a group project on the symbolism of the white dove in the final scenes of Blade Runner, the director's cut.

Not to mention all those lavish parties you could attend. Law students had their law revues, medical students had cruises and so on. Arts students? We were still analysing what kind of party would be appropriate on our graduation day.

While my father was as proud as punch on that special day of black hats that make your hair look like a half-sucked mango, even he could not resist the urge to make a jibe.

"What's the difference between a science graduate, an engineering graduate and an arts graduate?" he asked. "The science graduate asks why it works, the engineering graduate asks how it works and the arts graduate asks if you would like fries with that!"

But dad's joke ran off me like water off a duck's back. What a completely untrue, ignorant thing to say. I brought him leftover food for almost two years and he didn't even know we called them chips.

But back to you left-handed brain drivers. In case you think you had to study harder than us to get to that special day, just remember that we slaved over pages of theories for 10 months, but your exams were over in an hour.

When you were asked a question in class all you had to do was answer it correctly, while we had to argue why the answer was not true but a subjective falsehood of truth, and relate it back to intertextuality and post-modernism. Or something.

And when the second Big Bang comes and the few remaining survivors are wandering this Earth, they are not going to want doctors to heal their wounds and scientists to figure out what went wrong. No! The question on everyone's lips will be, how does this relate to the climax in Blade Runner, the director's cut?

So ditch your scientific snobbery and go back to your high-paying jobs without uttering a word of arts degree criticism and let us get back to reading the jobs classifieds and scratching our heads.

brendan

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #160 on: November 30, 2008, 12:57:26 am »
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No need to re-write what has already been said well enough
Lol! But I'm not asking COBLIN what YOUR opinion is. I'm asking YOU..!

And if you actually thought about what you quoted, then you would know that I think coblin said it well enough previously that there is no need for me re-write the same thing, that is, I agree with coblin's opinion.

You have shown well enough your complete inability to handle the message, so to make yourself feel better you choose to attack the messenger instead:
For the record, I'm not an Arts student. But I am vs. Brendan.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 01:04:17 am by Brendan »

excal

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #161 on: November 30, 2008, 01:18:18 am »
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Man up and actually declare your vendetta against arts degrees/students instead of passively-aggressively antagonising people with your constant bullshit.

What bullshit? The articles? I am just the messenger.

It says more that people like you choose to make unsubstantiated accusations against the messenger rather than address the message.

Brendan, you can play the innocent self-victimising "WHAT, ME?!"

It's more like people making unsubstantiated accusations. If a person is going to make an accusation then they better stand ready to provide some evidence.



Oh come off it, Brendan. Our assumptions aren’t unsubstantiated.

Our behaviours can determine what our attitudes are, as our attitudes can be used to predict our behaviours.

For example, just say I created a thread that contained a link to an article which stated that the crime rate amongst Sudanese Australians was considerably higher than the rest of the population. That would be fine. Members might rebut some of the points raised in the article, point out flaws in research methodology and share their anecdotes etc.

But, if I were to start creating threads every time I stumbled across an article that contained all sorts of negative statistics or articles about Sudanese Australians (as well as posting different articles, yet with the essentially the same information twice or thrice), it would be easy to deduce that I had a bias/negative attitude towards Sudanese Australians. The thing people ultimately find offensive wouldn’t necessarily be the articles, but my actions of posting the articles repeatedly and being very selective about the ones I choose to post.

Conversely, if I were to create threads every time I found a positive article about Sudanese Australians, you could assume that I felt positively towards Sudanese Australians. If I were to post a mixture of positive and negative articles, you could assume I felt ambivalent towards Sudanese Australians.

Behaviours reflect our attitudes. I may say, “I’m allowed to post what I like, I post lots of things on VN, I’m just the messenger. You just can’t handle the information about Sudanese Australians, it's the reader who thinks they are negative articles”, however I would have to accept that what I posted (repeatedly) reflected upon me, as well as my views. Actions do speak louder than words.

It’s not the articles; it’s your actions of posting these so frequently which I find pathetic.

Disclaimer: I don't actually have a prejudice against sudanese Australians at all, I just used that as an example.

And what's the problem with him being anti-Arts?
excal (VCE 05/06) BBIS(IBL) GradCertSc(Statistics) MBBS(Hons) GCertClinUS -- current Master of Medicine candidate
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ninwa

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #162 on: November 30, 2008, 02:32:06 am »
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As a proud arts student, I admit I do get a little defensive when the negative side of arts degrees are brought up so frequently - even though I do indulge in a bit of arts-bashing myself. Whenever I do something stupid, for example, I justify it by reminding everyone that I'm just a dumb arts student. :P

I don't mind when it's in jest. Jokes about McDonald's being my next employer just make me giggle. However, when someone repeatedly bashes me over the head with statistics and reports outlining every single negative aspect of an arts degree, it gets very annoying.

I admit part of my defensiveness comes from knowing that those articles state the truth - though the truth doesn't bother me as much as it might a pure arts student. My law degree will help me find a job. My arts degree is there to extend my knowledge of the world - of different cultures and languages, of international politics and affairs. People need to recognise that money isn't as important to some people as it may be to them. Some people learn for the pure joy of learning, and I wish that these articles would recognise that.

What really bothers me is, I guess, the continued focus on arts. I don't see any Science(criticism) threads, for example, even though they are also rather generalist degrees. (I recognise that Brendan is now seeking to rectify that, judging from his recent posts.)

I don't know if Brendan is anti-arts or not - I don't think anybody does except him. What I do know is that he is entitled to his opinion. He is perfectl entitled to endlessly post links to articles outlining how much harder it will be for my classmates to find a job when they graduate. Any protests against it are just going to lead to multi-page threads with arguments going round and round in circles - arts people protesting Brendan's seemingly anti-arts stance with Brendan fiercely maintaining his position as a mere messenger.

Probably the best thing to do is to take the path I have now decided to take - read the articles if you care, and move on. Or if, like me, you're bored by these articles now, just ignore these threads and remind yourself that not everybody appreciates the arts as much as you dp, just like you may not necessarily be a devotee of the mathematical or scientific fields. Everyone has the right to express their opinion, even if it's contrary to your own and expressed frequently and repetitively.

Nobody is forcing you to read these threads. You always have the choice to ignore them.





tl;dr - stop feeding the troll (that was dedicated to enwiabe. :P)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:34:00 am by ninwa »
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brendan

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #163 on: November 30, 2008, 02:41:11 am »
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People need to recognise that money isn't as important to some people as it may be to them. Some people learn for the pure joy of learning, and I wish that these articles would recognise that.

These articles are merely statistics about graduate employment outcomes, they don't purport to tell people what to study and or why they should study X or Y. That's a matter for the individual to decide according to his or her own individual preferences and values.

I don't see any Science(criticism) threads, for example, even though they are also rather generalist degrees. (I recognise that Brendan is now seeking to rectify that, judging from his recent posts.)

For the record, they are not "criticism" threads. They are simply information regarding the employment outcomes of graduates from certain fields of study. What the reader makes of the information is up to them.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:42:51 am by Brendan »

enwiabe

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Re: The employment outcomes of Arts graduates
« Reply #164 on: November 30, 2008, 02:42:34 am »
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y halo thar trolly mctroll troll :D