free laptops for muslim students [offtopic]

[Souljette_93]

Am I the only one who's realised there hasn't actually been a real counterargument to the whole Hamas thing - just denials and personal attacks?

Simpy because it is going to go out of hands. People are going to have the wrong impression, and start on twisting things around.
Already no real discussion about the 'hamas' thing and you can see how far it went. Already people started assuming things, claiming things which are based purely on their assumption and not by real consent. It deviated so much than it's original intention. In fact; this whole thread did, it was only meant to be a friendly reminder for the Muslim users on this forum.

There is absolutely no benefit in ceasing up, it make it seem like there is no defense. That even you who support this organisation cannot deny the links to terrorism.

Well if it seemed like that, then now i'm saying it's not.

I know well enough not to speak on such issues. they're 'big issues' you know, and require a level of understanding, well beyond any of us.
Besides, i don't expect everyone to understand, coming from the vast backgrounds and perspectives that we all have, be it from the media or what not.

On the side note, there are many defenses, it is just that here and now is not the right place to discuss such things. I hope i made the case clear.

[enwiabe]

there are many defenses, it is just that here and now is not the right place to discuss such things. I hope i made the case clear.

This is a clear bluff, and instead of making the case 'clear', you actually obfuscate it terribly by saying that there are 'many defenses'. If there are so many defenses, then why not air them? But you chase it with "now is not the right place"? Why is it not the right place? Is it because you are perhaps a bit out of your comfort zone and are afraid to have your views tested?

You have made nothing clear, in fact, all you have done is attempt to cloud the issue in uncertainty in order to deflect it. If there is a genuine defense to HAI's links to terrorism then air it - otherwise it appears as if you silently condone these terrorist links but do not wish to publically admit to it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I shudder to think that perhaps your "many defenses" involve the argument that the terrorist targets deserve it... I honestly hope I'm severely wrong.

[Souljette_93]

there are many defenses, it is just that here and now is not the right place to discuss such things. I hope i made the case clear.

This is a clear bluff, and instead of making the case 'clear', you actually obfuscate it terribly by saying that there are 'many defenses'. If there are so many defenses, then why not air them? But you chase it with "now is not the right place"? Why is it not the right place? Is it because you are perhaps a bit out of your comfort zone and are afraid to have your views tested?

Do you even know what my case was?

You have made nothing clear, in fact, all you have done is attempt to cloud the issue in uncertainty in order to deflect it. If there is a genuine defense to HAI's links to terrorism then air it - otherwise it appears as if you silently condone these terrorist links but do not wish to publically admit to it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I shudder to think that perhaps your "many defenses" involve the argument that the terrorist targets deserve it... I honestly hope I'm severely wrong.

I actually don't understand what you mean here.

[Abdi]

Human Appeal International (HAI) is a charitable, humanitarian, non-governmental organization (NGO) established in 1984 which works in the fields of charity, development - specializing in Social and Educational Development - Health Care and Emergency Relief. In addition to this, HAI holds consultative status (Category II) in the United Nations Social and Economic Council, maintains an observer capacity in IFAD (International Fund for Agriculture Development), and is a member of the International Council for Voluntary Associations (ICVA). HAI has also carried out joint ventures with the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for the Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA), the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) and has reached several memorandums of understanding with UNICEF and the AGFUND.

Human Appeal International has 12 offices worldwide serving more than 10 million people in countries including: Sudan, Senegal, Mauritania, Bosnia, Kashmir, Sri Lanka, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Kosovo, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Eritrea, Somalia and Palestine .
Of those individuals served, 80% are women and children. HAI has also sponsored over 46,000 orphans providing them with food, supplies, safe shelters, education and medical care through Complete Assistance Projects that ensured them secure and decent lives. In addition to the aforementioned relief and development work, HAI is credited with 20 years of humanitarian work and will continue to address humanitarian needs internationally.

Human Appeal International Australia has been established in Sydney since 1991, seeking funds from generous supporters to assist us in providing services to thousands of poor and needy people through our various programs.
 
http://www.humanappeal.org.au/page161730.aspx

[ninwa]

Did you honestly think they were going to say, on their own website, "we have links to Hamas" ?!

[Chavi]

Well if it seemed like that, then now i'm saying it's not.

I know well enough not to speak on such issues. they're 'big issues' you know, and require a level of understanding, well beyond any of us.
Besides, i don't expect everyone to understand, coming from the vast backgrounds and perspectives that we all have, be it from the media or what not.

On the side note, there are many defenses, it is just that here and now is not the right place to discuss such things. I hope i made the case clear.

Would you be willing to receive help from an organization that has links to Hamas?

Yes.

Would you answer that out of ignorance or sheer malice? For our sake, I'm hoping it's the former - and you simply don't understand what Hamas is and what it represents. On the other hand, maybe you've read their charter, and you post with premeditation - another worrying sign of radicalization amongst Muslim youth in Australia.

- so you then admit that you support for HAMAS is valid from an 'ignorant' standpoint - that you seemingly don't have the "level of understanding" to comprehend the "big issues" perpetrated by Islamist terror organizations around the world. You know, big issues like suicide bombings, brainwashing poor innocent children into lives of terrorism, enslaving an entire population in Gaza under the tyranny of Sharia, holding Gilad Shalit captive, calling for the mass-murder of all Jews in their charter, links to Al-Quada and Hezzbolah, stealing international aid and running a bribe economy. Those kinds of "issues". . .

Besides, i don't expect everyone to understand,

We don't understand. What would drive a seemingly typical Aussie girl to support Hamas?

[enwiabe]

there are many defenses, it is just that here and now is not the right place to discuss such things. I hope i made the case clear.

This is a clear bluff, and instead of making the case 'clear', you actually obfuscate it terribly by saying that there are 'many defenses'. If there are so many defenses, then why not air them? But you chase it with "now is not the right place"? Why is it not the right place? Is it because you are perhaps a bit out of your comfort zone and are afraid to have your views tested?

Do you even know what my case was?

You have made nothing clear, in fact, all you have done is attempt to cloud the issue in uncertainty in order to deflect it. If there is a genuine defense to HAI's links to terrorism then air it - otherwise it appears as if you silently condone these terrorist links but do not wish to publically admit to it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I shudder to think that perhaps your "many defenses" involve the argument that the terrorist targets deserve it... I honestly hope I'm severely wrong.

I actually don't understand what you mean here.

Yes your case was tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and hoping the problem would just go away...

In simple 1, 2, 3 the meaning of those few sentences were:
1) You were deliberately vague
2) You were deliberately flippant
3) You appear to be disguising a more sinister set of views than "now is not the right place"

[samiira]

i am sorri if i have offended any1 with my previous comments..

but nywayz...if HAI was linked to terrorism.. why does it still exist in Australia..?? i am sure the experts have done much more reliable research

[Blakhitman]

I still don't get it, if they're proven to aid terrorism, why then can I walk down sydney road, walk into their office and support terrorism.

[Cthulhu]

It took 8 posts for this thread to go from free laptops to terrorism.

It seems like the post should be renamed "FREE LAPTOPS GIVEN TO MUSL-SUDDENLY HAMAS"

Topic now has nothing to do with the free laptops or VCE. So the topic should be renamed and moved to the offtopic area of the forum.

Unless hamas also pays VCAA to give Muslim students higher study scores?

[itolduso]

i am sorri if i have offended any1 with my previous comments..

but nywayz...if HAI was linked to terrorism.. why does it still exist in Australia..?? i am sure the experts have done much more reliable research

No need to apologise. Say what you believe in.

[ninwa]

Mod edit: split + moved offtopic thread

[Souljette_93]

- so you then admit that you support for HAMAS is valid from an 'ignorant' standpoint - that you seemingly don't have the "level of understanding" to comprehend the "big issues" perpetrated by Islamist terror organizations around the world. You know, big issues like suicide bombings, brainwashing poor innocent children into lives of terrorism, enslaving an entire population in Gaza under the tyranny of Sharia, holding Gilad Shalit captive, calling for the mass-murder of all Jews in their charter, links to Al-Quada and Hezzbolah, stealing international aid and running a bribe economy. Those kinds of "issues". . .

Besides, i don't expect everyone to understand,

We don't understand. What would drive a seemingly typical Aussie girl to support Hamas?

No no..that's not what i meant. I am capable of speaking of these issues but very reluctant to do so. * It's not because I don't like my views challenged.
I referred to 'level of understanding' to all of us. We cannot just believe what the media says and do, we have to be reasonable. I have been to the HAI office here in Melb, and you see nothing but numerous ways on how to help people. It's a like 'World -Vision'-serves same purpose. Nobody or nothing actually proves that what you're saying is true-the first link you provided, i read it and nothing through it said it was related to Hamas. Even if it was, it would have been shown by now ( especially at the time of the Gaza wars and the flotilla attacks)..Even the websights you brought were like in ...2003?

there is no point in quoting me half way, i said this because i understand the differences that we all have.

Yes your case was tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and hoping the problem would just go away...

i see, nice analogy.

In simple 1, 2, 3 the meaning of those few sentences were:
1) You were deliberately vague
2) You were deliberately flippant
3) You appear to be disguising a more sinister set of views than "now is not the right place"

My case was only to reply to Matty,

There is absolutely no benefit in ceasing up, it make it seem like there is no defense. That even you who support this organisation cannot deny the links to terrorism.

Who pointed out what it seemed as. I just wanted to clarify my point very briefly,-'that i cannot deny links..etc'. That was it.  can't make it easier than that.

wow, it's quite amusing to see how you have interpreted my intentions ( perhaps others aswell) .i always bring wrong impressions.

I'm not trying to hide anything. The fact that i said ' now is not the right place' LOL is only because I'm aware of Exam periods now. I just know how i could get so caught up with such arguments, that i can't help myself. That's pretty much why, believe it or not.

[Yitzi_K]

I still don't get it, if they're proven to aid terrorism, why then can I walk down sydney road, walk into their office and support terrorism.

Good question. Getting rid of scumbags like this is yet another example of why anti-terror laws need to be upgraded. I know that in the US at least that any 'charitable' organisation with links to terror groups are outlawed.

More fuel to the fire: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/04/pro-hamas-conference-in-ireland-we-supported-the-jihad-and-we-will-do-so-until-allah-grants-us-victo.html

It appears that the funds raised from an event in which the speakers expressed their support for the Taliban and Hamas were given directly to HAI.

Speaking as someone who has had to sprint for bombshelters with 30-seconds notice on many occasions because of Hamas, this kind of stuff gets me extremely angry, and reinforces many of my thoughts about support for terrorism in the Islamic world.

[Blakhitman]

Do you believe ASIO would know if HAI funded terrorism?