Why do people favour elite schools?

[thushan]

What do you think most parents do today?

Blindly send their kids to a private school, paying $20,000 a year and not giving their kids personal attention, which is far more important to academic success than the actual school

Hey! Not true I would send my kids to a $20,000 private school based on its culture and excellent pastoral care.

[pi]

^^^ I think Paul has got a point, there are many (not all though! - as thushan alluded to) parents like this *looks at Xavier*

[paulsterio]

Hey! Not true I would send my kids to a $20,000 private school based on its culture and excellent pastoral care.

Well, not everyone is as critical as you Thushan, there's a lot of parents out there who send their kids to private schools for the wrong reasons, I personally know quite a few people like this

Although you're right as well, most of the high achievers would be the ones who take full advantage of the private school's facilities

^^^ I think Paul has got a point, there are many (not all though! - as thushan alluded to) parents like this *looks at Xavier*

Is Xavier that bad?

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[Jdog]

people really have a wrong perception about xavier.

The media is always waiting to jump on a story concerning private schools (the big ones especially i.e. scotch, grammar, skevs and xavier)

[paulsterio]

The media, well to be honest, I think they're just into the "shock" type news, where people who read it will be surprised and people would no doubt be more surprised if a student from a top notch grammar school decides to do something socially unacceptable as compared to a student from a public school in a lower socio-economic suburb.

In terms of wrong perceptions about Xavier, I'm not sure, because I think Xavier lacks the reputation that many other private schools have. Scotch, Melbourne Grammar, even Haileybury are more known to be really high achieving (you could also add Essendon Grammar too I guess) - but is Xavier really a top-knotch private school?

[Jdog]

the main three are scotch, MGS and skevs

[Eriny]

I didn't even read your initial statement, soz too long...

However I have been at a state school for 3 years and I finished my last 3 years in a private school.

The private school was better by far.

I used to believe that it is up to the individual, but seriously it's not, the individual thrives from guidance, however subtle it is. A key example is how private schools are usually on top of a study design whenever anything changes due to high quality educators that are present in the examining system. I didn't do psychology this year, but there is a new study design, introducing Alzeimers. My school stayed on top, and guess what 10 mark question on the back of the paper about it. 3/4 of state flunked that, many in other public schools (like the one i used to go to) had students doing badly not because they are not motivated or bad students, they simply learnt what is given, unfortunately not being all there is. Similarly this year some physics teachers in state schools continue to teach the 2007 study design, useless... All in all it comes down to you, but that extra something comes from a proper institution

I think it is unfair to the majority of public school teachers to say that they aren't on top of the new study design, maybe it might be fair to say that they aren't as 'on top of it', but certainly they would be aware of it (apart from maybe a few bad teachers? I don't know), it is barely secret knowledge and if nothing else the textbooks are written in reference to the study design. But even pretending that you're correct in saying that, there is nothing to stop a student from tracking the study design down for themselves. Most won't because the education system is not geared towards fostering independence at a secondary level. This is a problem for all schools, public or private, and it is an even bigger problem for public school students because they are not guaranteed that level of mollycoddling all of the time.

The question I would pose is whether having resources simply handed to you is in fact educationally better (ignoring the study score that comes out of it) than cultivating the initiative and curiosity required to seek out information. In terms of life preparation, I can say that it would be impossible to rely on the former at university or at most workplaces.

[paulsterio]

the main three are scotch, MGS and skevs

skevs? oh really? hmmm, I've always thought that haileybury would be up there with the best

[Rhettski999]

The school I went to:
-Half my teachers in year 12 did not bother with properly teaching the course, had a neutral stance toward academically achieving and failed miserably with the construction of internal SAC's.
-90% of the cohort didn't care about their ATAR's and thus created a poor learning and motivational environment.
-1 Practise exam per study 2 weeks before the English exam, which was a total farce.

This lessened my ability to do well, but with a stringent application of study I exceeded the cleary-in ATAR I needed. Yes, if my parents had been able to afford a more academically focussed school, I would have done better, but it is really up to the individual to apply themselves.

[Russ]

Blindly send their kids to a private school, paying $20,000 a year and not giving their kids personal attention, which is far more important to academic success than the actual school

Yes, all rich parents have no conception of the value of money and will gleefully throw it away. Again, stop focusing on the few extreme examples and look at what most parents do. Most of them can afford the money, sure, but they're not going to spend it unless they think it's a worthwhile endeavor.

[paulsterio]

I think it is unfair to the majority of public school teachers to say that they aren't on top of the new study design

That's true, all of my teachers were familiar with the study design and taught accordingly, none of my teachers taught anything that was from the old study design...etc. I think it's a matter of the teachers themselves rather than the school. I'm sure there are teachers in private schools who aren't top notch as well.

Also, no, cultivating the initiative and curiosity is better, although it may not lead to a higher study score, this can probably only be done individually. I can honestly say my school didn't influence the subjects I'm interested in and that's all been dependent on what I've always enjoyed since childhood.

This lessened my ability to do well, but with a stringent application of study I exceeded the cleary-in ATAR I needed. Yes, if my parents had been able to afford a more academically focussed school, I would have done better, but it is really up to the individual to apply themselves.

It sure is, it's always up to the individual, otherwise, why do you get people who get in the 60s in top notch private schools and people who get 99.95 in public schools which aren't known for academic prowess.

Yes, all rich parents have no conception of the value of money and will gleefully throw it away. Again, stop focusing on the few extreme examples and look at what most parents do. Most of them can afford the money, sure, but they're not going to spend it unless they think it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Yep, definately, they think it's a worthwhile endeavour, but they are mistaken, had their parents taught them properly, instilled the values of education in them and encouraged them to become interested in academics and its importance, their children will do much better than if they were sent to a private school without support. There's a strong correlation between a parent's educational level and a child's performance at school too.

[playsimme]

What do you think most parents do today?

Blindly send their kids to a private school, paying $20,000 a year and not giving their kids personal attention, which is far more important to academic success than the actual school

personal attention? Lol? My parents aren't well off and they basically worked their assess off so I could even put on my uniform each day. You shouldn't make such an ignorant generalization - you'd be surprised the amount of parents which care to make such sacrifices.

[Tashi]

Wow, this thread has gone way off topic since my opening post... It's not about private vs public, guys. I'm talking elite vs non-elite here (refer to my opening post).

It's just the branding. Also, I guess when you go to an "elite" school you get to be in "elite" circles in society.

[paulsterio]

personal attention? Lol? My parents aren't well off and they basically worked their assess off so I could even put on my uniform each day. You shouldn't make such an ignorant generalization - you'd be surprised the amount of parents which care to make such sacrifices.

But my point goes back to exactly this, now my family and I have had a lot of discussions over this topic, because I have a lot of younger siblings (my youngest isn't even a year old yet) - is it better for students for their parents to relax a little bit about work to give time and attention to their children, or to work their asses off, so that they have so little time, whilst being able to send their child to a private school.

I've always been of the belief that parents should give their children time over sending their kids to expensive schools whilst lacking that attention.


So is that sacrifice beneficial? - I'm not saying it is or it isn't, that's debatable, I'm just saying that in my view, it isn't - so don't think I'm having a go at your or anything

[Jdog]

try to get a scholarship to a private school.....

all of the top tier schools offer scholarships